1 (edited by Jackal 2018-10-19 14:21:44)

edit: It turned out to be a wild goose chase

Alcohol Soft also says so.
http://support.alcohol-soft.com/knowled … b+Channels

Jackal wrote:

Icewind Dale (Germany) (Disc 1): http://redump.org/disc/56488/

This looks different from what you posted in forum.

Also, the audio subchannels which you posted earlier in you initial 1st post seemed to have a protection pattern as well.

PX-760A (+30), PX-W4824TA (+98), GSA-H42L (+667), GDR-8164B (+102), SH-D162D (+6), SOHD-167T (+12)

http://www.laserlock.com/faq.html#canLLProtectMixed
Official site says

Can LaserLock protect Mixed Mode CDs?
LaserLock can protect the PC part of mixed mode CDs. Audio tracks cannot be protected and are not affected by the protection.

5 (edited by Jackal 2018-10-19 08:56:32)

sarami wrote:

http://www.laserlock.com/faq.html#canLLProtectMixed
Official site says

Can LaserLock protect Mixed Mode CDs?
LaserLock can protect the PC part of mixed mode CDs. Audio tracks cannot be protected and are not affected by the protection.

They must be talking about the bad sectors, not the subchannels.

After rereading some sectors, it seems obvious that the 1-bit crc errors are normal read errors and not part of the protection.
I'm still checking, but so far I haven't found any obvious protection data on any of the discs.
Or is it possible that drives modify the data and correct the crc bytes when they shouldn't?

A man also says this. https://www.hardwarecentral.com/forum/t … ata.37555/

Some protections that use SubChannel Data are SecuROM, LibCrypt (PlayStation) and LaserLock.

But CD Media World says nothing about subchannel. https://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/c … lock.shtml

I have no idea which is correct...


Jackal wrote:

and discovered that it would only launch with LaserLock emulation enabled in daemon tools.

Does it mean cue+bin (no sub) image can't run?

Jackal wrote:

I'm still checking, but so far I haven't found any obvious protection data on any of the discs.

Did you check the pregap of track1 and lead-in and lead-out?

Jackal wrote:

Or is it possible that drives modify the data and correct the crc bytes when they shouldn't?

I'm not sure.

7 (edited by Jackal 2018-10-19 14:31:38)

https://img-16.ccm2.net/cPafcOLIJof7F1ucGLdYP-BRtXQ=/3da041f562bd4ff9b8a3f9f8586eb88f/ccm-faq/AlGX0Jra-cohol5-s-.png

It's strange that they are listing it separately, so maybe subchannels aren't used but something else. I also read in other places that "with a 1:1 image, emulation isn't needed".

Does it mean cue+bin (no sub) image can't run?

Asghan and V2000 are crashing at startup (and Asghan somehow works with emulation enabled), but it could be because of other issues or compatibility problems.

I tested some other games (Icewind Dale + Spec Ops + Evolva, and before also other games) with normal redump images without without subchannels, and they worked.

Fair Strike + HellForces + Cold War Conflicts are newer titles with a different type of LaserLock "Star", which has the error sectors at the end of the disc.
For Cold War Conflicts, the redump image seems to work.
Fair Strike + HellForces seem to need DPM/RPMS. A CloneCD image alone wasn't sufficient.

So I'm giving up for now. There is no evidence that any LaserLock games are using subchannels. Maybe reentrant can also double check his Fallout 2 disc to be sure.

Did you check the pregap of track1 and lead-in and lead-out?

Pregap yes, lead-in and lead-out no.

Jackal wrote:

Fair Strike + HellForces + Cold War Conflicts are newer titles with a different type of LaserLock "Star", which has the error sectors at the end of the disc.
For Cold War Conflicts, the redump image seems to work.
Fair Strike + HellForces seem to need DPM/RPMS. A CloneCD image alone wasn't sufficient.

Good works. Btw, is LaserLock "Star" different from LaserLock MARATHON? https://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/c … thon.shtml

9 (edited by Jackal 2018-10-20 16:58:15)

sarami wrote:
Jackal wrote:

Fair Strike + HellForces + Cold War Conflicts are newer titles with a different type of LaserLock "Star", which has the error sectors at the end of the disc.
For Cold War Conflicts, the redump image seems to work.
Fair Strike + HellForces seem to need DPM/RPMS. A CloneCD image alone wasn't sufficient.

Good works. Btw, is LaserLock "Star" different from LaserLock MARATHON? https://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/c … thon.shtml

No idea, I just found the name "LaserLock Star" somewhere, maybe we should just call it LaserLock NEW? tongue

Jackal wrote:

No idea, I just found the name "LaserLock Star" somewhere, maybe we should just call it LaserLock NEW? tongue

A-Ray scanner or ProtectionID may tell correct name to you..