I was suggested to make a thread to discuss dumping audio tracks with an ASUS or LG Drive.

I had a disc I tried dumping with audio tracks, Reader Rabbit Toddler. For some reason, my Plextor made a bad dump with it before (adding more 0x00 bytes to the end of tracks), but when retrying the dumps match.

I believe Digitoxin also said all his discs with audio tracks matched when dumping with Plextor and LG.

Also, positive offset discs can be dumped with the ASUS using the /mr option in DIC.

Please post any other useful information, and with enough testing maybe positive offset discs made with an ASUS/LG can be added to Redump, and discs with audio tracks can be reinstated.

My Hardware: Plextor PX-W5224TA (white, with Syba 5.25" HDD enclosure), ASUS BW-16D1HT (with OWC Mercury Pro enclosure), Plextor Premium-U, Plextor PX-760

2 (edited by bikerspade 2021-09-08 17:54:49)

I redumped [IBM PC] Imperialism: The Fine Art Of Conquering The World (USA) with my ASUS BW-16D1HT. This disc has an offset of +1176, with audio tracks. It matches the dump from my Plextor PX-716UF.

ASUS logs
Plextor logs

Console log snippet from ASUS:

AppVersion
        x86, AnsiBuild, 20210701T212154
/c2 val2 was omitted. set [0]
/mr val was omitted. set [50]
/sf val was omitted. set [60]
CurrentDirectory
        D:\tmp\MPF_2.1-net48\net48
WorkingPath
         Argument: ISO\Imperialism - The Fine Art Of Conquering The World (USA)\
Imperialism - The Fine Art Of Conquering The World (USA).bin
         FullPath: D:\tmp\MPF_2.1-net48\net48\ISO\Imperialism - The Fine Art Of
Conquering The World (USA)\Imperialism - The Fine Art Of Conquering The World (U
SA).bin
            Drive: D:
        Directory: \tmp\MPF_2.1-net48\net48\ISO\Imperialism - The Fine Art Of Co
nquering The World (USA)\
         Filename: Imperialism - The Fine Art Of Conquering The World (USA)
        Extension: .bin
StartTime: 2021-09-05T09:47:38-0500
Set the drive speed: 8467KB/sec
This drive can read data sectors at scrambled state [OpCode: 0xbe, C2flag: 1, Su
bCode: 0]
This drive can read data sectors at scrambled state [OpCode: 0xbe, C2flag: 1, Su
bCode: 1]
This drive can read data sectors at scrambled state [OpCode: 0xbe, C2flag: 1, Su
bCode: 2]
This drive can read data sectors at scrambled state [OpCode: 0xbe, C2flag: 1, Su
bCode: 4]
LBA[262726, 0x40246]: [F:ReadCDForCheckingReadInOut][L:801]
        Opcode: 0xbe
        ScsiStatus: 0x02 = CHECK_CONDITION
        SenseData Key-Asc-Ascq: 05-21-00 = ILLEGAL_REQUEST - LOGICAL BLOCK ADDRE
SS OUT OF RANGE
lpCmd: be, 04, 00, 04, 02, 46, 00, 00, 01, f8, 00, 00
dwBufSize: 2352
This drive can't read the lead-out
But 0xF1 opcode is supported
========== Reading 262705 - 262725 INTO CACHE ==========
01 Cache LBA 262705, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:55
02 Cache LBA 262706, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:56
03 Cache LBA 262707, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:57
04 Cache LBA 262708, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:58
05 Cache LBA 262709, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:59
06 Cache LBA 262710, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:60
07 Cache LBA 262711, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:61
08 Cache LBA 262712, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:62
09 Cache LBA 262713, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:63
10 Cache LBA 262714, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:64
11 Cache LBA 262715, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:65
12 Cache LBA 262716, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:66
13 Cache LBA 262717, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:67
14 Cache LBA 262718, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:68
15 Cache LBA 262719, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:69
16 Cache LBA 262720, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:70
17 Cache LBA 262721, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:71
18 Cache LBA 262722, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:72
19 Cache LBA 262723, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:73
20 Cache LBA 262724, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:24:74
21 Cache LBA 262725, SubQ Trk 12, AMSF 58:25:00
22 Cache LBA 262726, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:01 [Lead-out]
23 Cache LBA 262727, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:02 [Lead-out]
24 Cache LBA 262728, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:03 [Lead-out]
25 Cache LBA 262729, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:04 [Lead-out]
26 Cache LBA 262730, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:05 [Lead-out]
27 Cache LBA 262731, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:06 [Lead-out]
28 Cache LBA 262732, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:07 [Lead-out]
29 Cache LBA 262733, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:08 [Lead-out]
30 Cache LBA 262734, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:09 [Lead-out]
31 Cache LBA 262735, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:10 [Lead-out]
32 Cache LBA 262736, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:11 [Lead-out]
33 Cache LBA 262737, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:12 [Lead-out]
34 Cache LBA 262738, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:13 [Lead-out]
35 Cache LBA 262739, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:14 [Lead-out]
36 Cache LBA 262740, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:15 [Lead-out]
37 Cache LBA 262741, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:16 [Lead-out]
38 Cache LBA 262742, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:17 [Lead-out]
39 Cache LBA 262743, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:18 [Lead-out]
40 Cache LBA 262744, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:19 [Lead-out]
41 Cache LBA 262745, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:20 [Lead-out]
42 Cache LBA 262746, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:21 [Lead-out]
43 Cache LBA 262747, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:22 [Lead-out]
44 Cache LBA 262748, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:23 [Lead-out]
45 Cache LBA 262749, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:24 [Lead-out]
46 Cache LBA 262750, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:25 [Lead-out]
47 Cache LBA 262751, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:26 [Lead-out]
48 Cache LBA 262752, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:27 [Lead-out]
49 Cache LBA 262753, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:28 [Lead-out]
50 Cache LBA 262754, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:29 [Lead-out]
51 Cache LBA 262755, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:30 [Lead-out]
52 Cache LBA 262756, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:31 [Lead-out]
53 Cache LBA 262757, SubQ Trk aa, AMSF 58:25:32 [Lead-out]
-----------------------------------------------------
Cache SIZE: 53 (This size is different every running)
-----------------------------------------------------
Checking SubQ adr (Track) 12/12
Checking SubRtoW (Track) 12/12
Reading DirectoryRecord   22/  22
Checking EXE   22
[INFO] Protection can't be detected. /sf, /ss is ignored.
Set OpCode: 0xbe, SubCode: 1(Raw)
Checking SubQ ctl (Track) 12/12
Creating .scm (LBA) 262728/262728
No C2 errors
Copying .scm to .img
Descrambling data sector of img: 176049/176049
Exec ""D:\tmp\MPF_2.1-net48\net48\Programs\Creator\EccEdc.exe" check "D:\tmp\MPF
_2.1-net48\net48\ISO\Imperialism - The Fine Art Of Conquering The World (USA)\Im
perialism - The Fine Art Of Conquering The World (USA).img""
FILE: D:\tmp\MPF_2.1-net48\net48\ISO\Imperialism - The Fine Art Of Conquering Th
e World (USA)\Imperialism - The Fine Art Of Conquering The World (USA).img
Checking sectors: 262725/262725
[NO ERROR] User data vs. ecc/edc match all
Creating cue and ccd (Track) 12/12
Creating bin (Track) 12/12
Hashing: Imperialism - The Fine Art Of Conquering The World (USA).scm

3 (edited by reentrant 2021-09-08 18:32:27)

In the other thread I described what was the problem with ASUS drives (problems with locating data offset in cache). If this is handled correctly the dumps should be safe.

Problem = data in cache can sometimes be shifted by 1 (or more?) sectors. It's mandatory to parse cache data (subs) to locate correct offset instead of blindly assuming the offset.

reentrant wrote:

In the other thread I described what was the problem with ASUS drives (problems with locating data offset in cache). If this is handled correctly the dumps should be safe.

Problem = data in cache can sometimes be shifted by 1 (or more?) sectors. It's mandatory to parse cache data (subs) to locate correct offset instead of blindly assuming the offset.

Do we know when this problem is occurring?

5 (edited by reentrant 2021-09-10 14:12:42)

Looks random and happens from time to time like 1/15

6 (edited by matura713 2021-09-12 00:37:35)

reentrant wrote:

Looks random and happens from time to time like 1/15

if it occurs so rare, then if dump 2 times and the two dumps match it should be correct dump.

my problem with BW-16D1HT is that it cannot handle Audio CDs with very common protection, i made thread about that here:

http://forum.redump.org/post/94578/#p94578

that protection was really common on discs in 2001-2004 period. In any way, IMHO, BW-16D1HT is still useful drive to have.

P.S. currently from 20-30 drives I have tested, only NEC ND-3530A is working for that audio protection, but it's not supported by DiscImageCreator plus it cannot do LeadOut, i.e. it cannot do the last track properly, but at least is 100% with all other tracks - beats the 2 Plextors I have big time.

> if it occurs so rare, then if dump 2 times and the two dumps match it should be correct dump.

IIRC I had never 2 consecutive bad dumps with ASUS. But it's just a probability - if something might happen it will happen smile

8 (edited by scsi_wuzzy 2021-09-16 20:36:22)

I agree that BW-16D1HT is a very useful drive. I've found it has much better ability to read damaged discs compared to some of the Plextors. Just recently, I was going to do a comparison in dumping a zero offset disc between my Plextor Premium and my LG WH14NS40 (cross flashed over to BW-16D1HT). Unfortunately, there are several sectors that the Premium can't read (i.e., have ECC/EDC errors) even after several hundred retries. In contrast, the BW-16D1HT doesn't even report any C2 errors, and the ECC/EDC match after the first try.

I hope for that reason alone we can get all the kinks worked out with the ASUS / LG drives. They seem to be better readers. That might just be because they're less aged and worn, but I suspect it's also just because they're newer technology.

9 (edited by matura713 2021-09-17 11:52:31)

scsi_wuzzy wrote:

Unfortunately, there are several sectors that the Premium can't read (i.e., have ECC/EDC errors) even after several hundred retries. In contrast, the BW-16D1HT doesn't even report any C2 errors, and the ECC/EDC match after the first try.

I believe that is the bug in Plextor firmware, already discussed many times, I believe the first time reported and confirmed as such, was in the following series of posts:

http://forum.redump.org/post/91255/#p91255

So far it was reported only for PX-755/760 and other Plextor DVD drives like PX-716/712 were reported as fine, but maybe the Premium has such (or similar) bug as well. BTW, I found even earlier discussion of such problem:

http://forum.redump.org/post/72520/#p72520

where @sarami suggested to rule out DiscImageCreator bug to use combination of cdtoimg.exe (d8 hacked) and descramble using Descramble_CDDA.exe:

http://forum.redump.org/post/72549/#p72549

scsi_wuzzy wrote:

I hope for that reason alone we can get all the kinks worked out with the ASUS / LG drives. They seem to be better readers. That might just be because they're less aged and worn, but I suspect it's also just because they're newer technology.

actually, my BW-16D1HT (and it's brand new, no any wear) is terrible reader when it comes to real tough C1/C2 errors. I think so, because on Cactus protected discs - those are intentionally pressed at the factory with incredible amounts of C1/C2 errors - on one early version of the protection, DicsImageCreator counted about 8000 C2 errors alone:

http://forum.redump.org/topic/39461/how … ular-lbas/

and BW-16D1HT cannot even touch them:

http://forum.redump.org/post/94578/#p94578

to be honest only drives (at least that I own) that can do it are PX-5224 and surprisingly NEC ND-3530A (later NEC like ND-4550A failed very badly on my tests and ND-3520A fails as well. so, it's really possible ND-3530A and potentially the model after it - ND-3540A are the only working one. Those are actually the last NEC, the next ND-4550A is Sony-NEC on the label).

I remember trying to dump one of my PS1 discs with a PX-716UF and it threw many unrecoverable C2 errors. Recently I tried again with my new 16D1HT and it dumped it successfully without a single C2 error.

11 (edited by matura713 2021-09-17 15:08:23)

bikerspade wrote:

with a PX-716UF and it threw many unrecoverable C2 errors

as far as I know there was at least one batch of PX-716, especially those used in USB enclosures, that had some issue with the laser on CDs and eventually they stop reading CDs altogether even after very light use. also, at the end of the post here:

http://forum.redump.org/post/95189/#p95189

I documented how PX-5224 that was reporting hundreds of C2 errors on the same discs after some more hours of use started to work, i.e. probably the laser "wake up" from the use instead die.

scsi_wuzzy wrote:

I hope for that reason alone we can get all the kinks worked out with the ASUS / LG drives. They seem to be better readers. That might just be because they're less aged and worn, but I suspect it's also just because they're newer technology.

There's another critical reason to use those drives: they're still being sold!
Finding a Plextor is getting more difficult by the day. The ones you can find on ebay cost a kidney and there's no guarantee they're in good condition. My 760A is useless now (Servo failure with all discs) and both my Premium and 708A are only reliable with slow speeds.

13 (edited by matura713 2021-09-17 19:21:23)

ssjkakaroto wrote:

... and there's no guarantee they're in good condition. My 760A is useless now (Servo failure with all discs) and both my Premium and 708A are only reliable with slow speeds.

totally agree, as newbie here, recently I bought 708A, 712A and 716A : all of them are with dead laser in different stages, i.e. 708A and 712A the laser is completely dead (it cannot read neither CD, nor DVD, actually 712A was able only once to read one particular CD, but obviously the laser is very very weak) and 716A cannot read CDs, still good for DVDs (but that's more or less useless).

However, at least for 708A and 712A there are replacement lasers available from China - in 1 month or so I will be be able to give feedback and tell if the replacement laser is as good as original, i.e. if they can read my favorite test CDs - those with Cactus protection, i.e. many C1/C2 errors pressed at factory.

So, bottom line, I wouldn't recommend buying 716A at all - as there are no replacement lasers for them. Currently, BW-16D1HT beats PX755/760 in most cases, because of the aforementioned in previous posts firmware bug. So, I guess, only safe bet are 708A and 712A, but if you're willing to replace the laser plus for me it is still an open question if the replacement laser is as good as the original. I ordered mine, but shipping from China takes forever...

Also, Plextor PX-5224 I bought has a fault:

http://forum.redump.org/post/94515/#p94515

luckily I found way to workaround its fault, but not how to fix it. So, at least for me, so far it turned it's kind of impossible to find second hand Plextor that in 2021 is actually still in fully working order.

@bikerspade
If you have time, continue to dump your +1176 disc by ASUS until the hash unmatches, and upload the unmatched logs, plz.

sarami wrote:

@bikerspade
If you have time, continue to dump your +1176 disc by ASUS until the hash unmatches, and upload the unmatched logs, plz.

No problem, I will do that and report back.

16 (edited by bikerspade 2021-09-20 01:25:28)

I’ve run it 30 times so far, and no bad dump yet. I had a batch file running it consecutively with 60 seconds to cool down between iterations. I don't think it's going to give me a bad dump at this point.

bikerspade wrote:

I’ve run it 30 times so far,

Thanks. If data-shifted is really random, it will occur someday... btw, what drive and os do you use? Jackal reported that it occurred by ASUS (What ASUS?) and linux (What distribution?) http://forum.redump.org/post/93955/#p93955

18 (edited by bikerspade 2021-09-20 17:10:16)

sarami wrote:

btw, what drive and os do you use?

ASUS BW-16D1HT
90DD0200-B28000
Manufactured April 2021
Firmware v3.02
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium

bikerspade wrote:

ASUS BW-16D1HT
90DD0200-B28000
Manufactured April 2021
Firmware v3.02

Tell me the drive name and firmware before a flash, plz.

sarami wrote:

Tell me the drive name and firmware before a flash, plz.

The drive originally came with firmware v3.10.
Drive name? It is a BW-16D1HT/BLK/G/AS