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If there are any games released in England only, just create a (England) tag and use it when it's necessary. I don't know what's the problem with that.

For the systems I'm directly involved with, the totality of PAL English-only games are whole-Europe release. As far as my part in the database goes, (E) is de facto ALWAYS (Europe). (E) = (England) is STILL nonsense for 99% of the cases.

If some PS1/PS2 games are England only, the dumper/adder will mark it as such when the tag is available.

It's a French game at heart, but it wasn't simply "imported", it was an official Sega release with a Spain-specific serial (T-13301H-06, while the French one is T-13301H-09). The 2 releases are probably identical, but the disc Retrogamer dumped has the Spanish serial, so we just can't assume they match. He found the game in Portugal, imported from Spain, but the Spain one isn't an import, it's an official release by Sega

http://www.satakore.com/sega-saturn-gam … UR-FR.html

Yes, the naming's right as it is now.

Yes the 2 dumps will probably match. We'll discover it when we dump the edition with the French external serial (T-13301H-09)

Only thing is that we'll have to find a solution for its naming. The game is (France) AND (Spain), only released in those 2 countries. Not an interesting problem really, anyway.

As I said, I don't oppose changes that go from specific to generic, because the result might be slightly less precise but at least won't end up wrong. So that Dragonball game could be named (Europe) (Fr), despite being released only in France and Spain. Same for (Germany) (De), I accept it becoming (Europe) (De), even if the games were released only in Germany and Austria. Less precise but correct.

The inverse is not possible, the passage from generic to specific will fuck everything up. Most current (Europe) (En) entries have been released in something like 20+ European countries, despite containing only English language. The result would be half the database spreading not simply less precise info, but outright wrong info.

Why do you say that labelling a game (En) shows it was primarily an England release? English has always been the primary language of videogames, since Pong, Space Invaders was English-only for all the planet basically. They're not books where language define perfectly the region where it's meant to be read. (En) has come to mean generic PAL through multiple release on multiple systems year after year: 80% of Europe received English-only titles for the past 25 years.

I added a part to mu above post. I accept what you're saying, but not what TossEAC is, English-only PAL games are not (England) at all.

In other words we can go from specific to generic, but not from generic to specific without corrupting the original info.

The region naming reflects the actual, physical distribution. It has nothing to do with consistency or mixed labelling.

Once all PAL releases were English-only, because the whole PAL region were identified with English language, for simplicity and because there were simply not enough money to invest in translating in-game text. The copies of a game sold in each European country were too few to guarantee the return home of the money. Then some markets (read: 40+ million people markets) became large enough to make market specific releases profitable.

But the initial generic PAL release concept did't retire, because outside those 4-5 large markets distribution is still organized the same old way. If an English-only dump has been marketed in England, yes, but in Holland, Finland, Norway, Estonia, Greece, Serbia, Hungary, Poland etc etc etc too, why we should consider it anything else than "Europe", despite what we call consistency? The only consistency we have to adhere to is consistency to correctness, nothing else.

Multilingual games contains only 5-6 languages out of more than 20 European languages too, yet they're destined to the whole of Europe.

I don't get your example because while a German release is technically "European", but de-facto limited to Germany and Austria, given the language barrier, the English release has always been the multicultural one, valid for the whole PAL region, not tied with a specific national territory.

If some dump was released in UK only, it would deserve its own flag, but then what version was released in Estonia? In Hungary? In Bulgaria? Sure those countries got an English release, and if not the UK one, what then?

I don't think any company created an English release specific to non-UK, rest-of-Europe small countries. Bulgarian kids probably got plain ol' UK release, just like we Italian, French, Spanish, German kids got back in 1991.

(E) is Europe, since... well forever. And yes, we continental Europeans had to have our games in English only for most of videogame history, how is that strange? Those English only titles were available in shops all around  Europe. Back when companies didn't have the habit of translating games, English was chosen as the only language simply because eveyone knew a word or two of English, not because the games were destined to England only.

Finally, since when hasn't England been a part of Europe? If you are English and think you're in a continent of its own, you might want to check the opinion of the rest of the world   (no offense)

Those are the gaps returned by EAC and PerfectRip, in Tosec they're like that too. They're just about as wrong as the tracks we're discussing in this thread, in other words they're surely wrong, but only because they come from bad mastering, all of them should be 2.00.

You in the first post