• Registered: 2012-09-18
  • Posts: 22

Hi, i'm not new to the world of redump.org, but now i have a strange problem. Basically i'm interested in preserving games for PlayStation and PlayStation2, so i decided to dump some games i own and make my personal backup for playing on that gaming systems.

PlayStation2 is not the real problem, burning softwares will manage correctly isos. Well, I decided to take a look at the dats and cuesheets and noticed that very very few games for this system use multitrack cdda (about 10 titles), so i eventually decided to use iso as file standard. in this case i had no problems with dvd9s, dvd5s and monotrack data cds (the ones with blue layer).

PlayStation is really a big problem because of multitrack cddas, tracks with errors, libcrypt protection, different versions and so on. Well, i decided to use ccd/img/sub (to make possible storing libcrypt protection) for all my psx backups, but i noticed differences on different software such as clonecd, alcohol120%, imgburn on pregaps, errors and cuesheets. monotrack cds with errour count=0 never gave me problems. for libcrypt protection i added it manually hexediting the sub file with sectors gave on redump instead of dumping from my discs (i tried also sbi2sub utility but seems to generate altered data in the last sectors of sub file, maybe it's the pregap?). so i create my monotrack backup files generating a bin with any software, then creating a cuesheet with imgburn, mounting the disc on a virtual drive, then create a ccd/img/sub from that with clonecd, last if libcrypted game editing sub with sbi2sub. So the data and the libcrypt is not the problem.

What exactly i have to do with cddas and error count different from 0? i read something about c1/c2 errors, compatible drives and so on, but i haven't understood. audio tracks are more sensitive to disc scratches, thus resulting in nearly always crc mismatch (only in audio tracks, first data track always matches). i tried discimagecreator but it's not compatible with my drive. is there any software able to perfectly dump each audio track after first data track without the need of getting a new plextor drive? If yes, maybe you can explain how to configure that, if it is alcohol, clonecd or imgburn?

After dumping i need to burn backups to play (i don't want to use original cds in my playstation), but i noticed that from a perfect dump my drive always generates a bad backup when redumped from burned copy (crc mismatch in img and sub). is it due to pregap and c1/c2 errors? i use clonecd at minimum possible speed (10x, 3x) and verbatim cd/dvv5/dvd9s

  • Registered: 2006-12-24
  • Posts: 3,847

Rallye89 wrote:

Well, i decided to use ccd/img/sub (to make possible storing libcrypt protection) for all my psx backups, but i noticed differences on different software such as clonecd, alcohol120%

Alcohol 120% is unable to dump into ccd/img/sub, all the audio tracks become shifted. Unless that was fixed in the recent versions, but I have doubts.

Rallye89 wrote:

imgburn on pregaps, errors and cuesheets

Meh? What pregaps, what cuesheets? You've just said "ccd/img/sub". And what errors?

Rallye89 wrote:

i tried also sbi2sub utility but seems to generate altered data in the last sectors of sub file, maybe it's the pregap?).

Depends on the differences.

Rallye89 wrote:

What exactly i have to do with cddas and error count different from 0?

RAW DAO 96 burning mode shouldn't affect those errors and leave them intact.

Rallye89 wrote:

is there any software able to perfectly dump each audio track after first data track without the need of getting a new plextor drive?

You can try to check the swap trick, whether it works for your drive or not. Find the "startstop" utility somewhere on this forum, insert any Audio CD, stop the drive, eject the tray by inserting some pin into the emergency eject hole, insert the game disc, close the tray manually using some force, then try to read the sectors. You should see the scrambled data sectors in the data area.

Rallye89 wrote:

After dumping i need to burn backups to play (i don't want to use original cds in my playstation), but i noticed that from a perfect dump my drive always generates a bad backup when redumped from burned copy (crc mismatch in img and sub)

Images with CDDA differ, if dumped with CloneCD or similar, since they don't do the offset correction. Subs won't match, either, since the dumping tools don't correct the random errors.

  • Registered: 2012-09-18
  • Posts: 22

I was talking about desidered errors container into retail copies of ps1 games, such as dino crisis, syphon filter 2 and final fantasy origins. Clonecd corrects these sectors in read mode thus resulting in data mismatch with redump data. I avoided the problem just replacing the img with another one got on the internet that matched the crc, but only because i found it on the web. Could clonecd be configured to dump these games correct way? Or i just need to get another software?

Burning backups is another problem. Which software is the best? I want to generate a 1:1 copy of my dumps. I know that subchannels don’t have correction, but data and audio should have it, so if i’m starting from a perfect dump there is no reason in getting a shifted audio or mismatched data in backups. I created 4 different profiles in clonecd: psx standard (no libcrypt) with subchannels regenerating, psx standard with errors (no libcrypt and no data regeneration), psx libcrypt (no subcode regeneration) and psx libcrypt with errors (no sub regen and no data regen), however this method doesn’t seem to have effect, cause clonecd corrects data even if i configure it to not do so. EG i want to dump Dino Crisis that contains audio, libcrypt and errors. And then burn it. what should i do?

  • Registered: 2012-09-18
  • Posts: 22

If i remember correctly i’m having mismatch also in monotrack (data) ps1 games burned from matching imgs and cues burned with alchol or clonecd? Is my drive faulty? I don’t want to waste cdrs and dvdrs, so i need to be sure of what method i have to use. Let’s start with ps2 dvd5 isos that are for sure mode1 and less problematic: could alcohol120% manage the thing correctly? Or you advice imgburn for this purpose? Answer me so that i can burn something and verify the backups. Thanks for interestment!

5 Reply by idlord (edited by idlord 2018-02-01 22:18:06)

  • Registered: 2017-03-28
  • Posts: 72

No possible way to properly preserve your PSX discs unless you own a supported Plextor drive that is compatible with DiscImageCreator.

  • Registered: 2012-09-18
  • Posts: 22

idlord wrote:

No possible way to properly preserve your PSX discs unless your own a supported Plextor drive that is compatiable with DiscImageCreator.

So it seems that i have to buy a Plextor drive. Is there any AIO solution by plextor that is bd/dvd/cd read/write capable and compatible with DIC? That’s because i own some ps3 bd games and i want to backup these in the future.

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  • Registered: 2009-03-14
  • Posts: 2,621

CD + DVD yes. Here is a list of redump approved drives and whether or not they're CD or both CD/DVD: http://wiki.redump.org/index.php?title= … ead_Speeds

Plextor blu-rays do not do CD-Rom properly.

All my posts and submission data are released into Public Domain / CC0.

8 Reply by idlord (edited by idlord 2018-02-01 22:17:31)

  • Registered: 2017-03-28
  • Posts: 72

Here is a dumping guide for PS3: http://forum.redump.org/topic/12699/ps3 … ructions/, it also requires an additional specific drive in order to detect/read PS3 discs, unfortunately there is no all-in-one solution.

  • Registered: 2006-12-24
  • Posts: 3,847

Rallye89 wrote:

I was talking about desidered errors container into retail copies of ps1 games, such as dino crisis, syphon filter 2 and final fantasy origins. Clonecd corrects these sectors in read mode thus resulting in data mismatch with redump data. I avoided the problem just replacing the img with another one got on the internet that matched the crc, but only because i found it on the web. Could clonecd be configured to dump these games correct way?

Most likely, it's your drive correcting the errors. Try the swapping trick described above.

  • Registered: 2008-09-29
  • Posts: 2,193

Their is a problem when burning audio cds, your drive will adjust the files slightly to do with the drive offset, meaning when you read in your backup the audio will be slightly shifted by a few bytes, you can correct this, by working out how many bytes your burning drive shifts the audio on a burnt disc. Once you have that amount (x) you can adjust the audio by x but in the opposite direction before you burn, So when you burn and x is applied you get the audio exactly right. Then when you read your backups the audio will no be shifted.

He who controls the SPICE... controls the UNIVERSE!
The SPICE must flow.
  • Registered: 2012-09-18
  • Posts: 22

http://wiki.redump.org/index.php?title=Setting_Up

What is the specific purpose of this cpp profile?

I'll start burning some ps2 dvd5 isos and see if this matches with crc after generating an iso from the burned disc. Gonna try with Alcohol 120%, ImgBurn. Any other burning software adviced?

12 Reply by Rallye89 (edited by Rallye89 2018-02-03 03:53:08)

  • Registered: 2012-09-18
  • Posts: 22

tossEAC wrote:

Their is a problem when burning audio cds, your drive will adjust the files slightly to do with the drive offset, meaning when you read in your backup the audio will be slightly shifted by a few bytes, you can correct this, by working out how many bytes your burning drive shifts the audio on a burnt disc. Once you have that amount (x) you can adjust the audio by x but in the opposite direction before you burn, So when you burn and x is applied you get the audio exactly right. Then when you read your backups the audio will no be shifted.

According to DriveDiscOffset, mine has +6. Will it affect dumping or burning or both?

I think that is better starting with dvds for ps2, let's see what i get from those. I really don't want to waste cdrs and dvdrs, but also understanding what is the real problem. ps2 dvds are mode1/2048, so if my drive/support combination generates random errors in the burning process, they should be nearly always detected and corrected comparing to mode2 specs.

13 Reply by Rallye89 (edited by Rallye89 2018-02-03 08:38:33)

  • Registered: 2012-09-18
  • Posts: 22

Good news for us. Tried burning Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas v2.01 with Alcohol 120%. Here is the result:

http://redump.org/disc/1074/

ORIGINAL IMAGE CHECKED WITH REDUMP DB:

SLES-52541.iso
Sectors 2207136
Size 4520214528
CRC-32 13a51f88

IMAGE DUMPED WITH ALCOHOL 120% FROM DISC BURNED WITH ALCOHOL 120%.

ALCOHOL120.iso
Size 4520214528
CRC-32 13a51f88

Burned it with PlayStation2 profile on Alcohol 120%. No size and data mismatch, so it seems that my drive is working properly at least with dvd5 mode1/2048. Next one is a PS2 dvd9 game.

EDIT

Burned Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance v1.02 with Alcohol 120%. Dumped and still matches.

http://redump.org/disc/364/

SLES-82009.iso CRC-32 0333ed63
ALCOHOL120.iso CRC-32 0333ed63

Next one: PS1 monotrack disc! wink

  • Registered: 2012-09-18
  • Posts: 22

Tried burning disc http://redump.org/disc/5595/ Bugs Bunny: Lost in Time from a perfect dump, the result is the same for Alcohol 120% and CloneCD, the burned disc generated images matches both the redump CRC-32, so my problem is not this. I think the problem i have is what TossEAC said above, so the audio shifting gave by drive. I noticed that by mounting disc http://redump.org/disc/1130/ Castlevania: Symphony of the Night for generating a CCD/IMG/SUB to store in my personal HDD. Used Alcohol Virtual Drive to mount cue/bin (1bin with data and audio merged), or cue/bins (1bin for data, 1bin for audio) and i found that the resulting imgs for these two methods are the same, even if i merge with HexWorkshop the two bin tracks. So it seems that Virtual Drive does the same thing a burner does, shifting the audio tracks forwards or backwards. I manually deleted the resulting SLES-00524.img and used old merged CSOTN.bin renamed in SLES-00524.img to store in my hdd.

So is there a simple solution to mount/burn images without shifting audio tracks? I mean: i understand that a burner has its own audio correction offset called x, so to get a 1:1 copy i have to set a proper -(x) offset in burner software. Which burning software supports the setting of a custom offset to neutralize the drive one? Or do I have to manually do this for every track? For Castlevania is not a problem, but many games have high number of audio tracks, i could get mad doing this manually! yikes

  • Registered: 2006-12-24
  • Posts: 3,847

Rallye89 wrote:

Which burning software supports the setting of a custom offset to neutralize the drive one?

EAC, but it only supports Audio CD discs.

  • Registered: 2012-09-18
  • Posts: 22

I think i'm understanding how all this works. The pregap on PS1 audio tracks is nearly always 2SS on audio tracks. Assuming that i decided to store my images in CCD/IMG/SUB if i have to do with a monotrack game the resulting img has the same size and the same checksum of redump. In case of multitrack games (assuming that all the games have 1 data track and X audio track each with 2SS pregap -but i read that is not always happening-) the resulting files are:

img > [redumptotalsize]+(2352*75*2*X) with inserted bytes between the tracks zeroed

sub > [redumptotalsize]/2352*96+(96*X) with bytes added in standard subchannel layout

ccd > LBA shifted of 150 sectors each track

However this is really complicated because to verify an image i have to create a custom cuesheet (because imgburn always uses a 00:02:00 pregap for the first audio track, setting 0 as pregap mode and deleting audio pregap from the generated cuesheet's first audio track), and convert cue/bin/wav into ccd/img7sub. The result is a img with the same total size of redump.org database, that could match. Then i have to create another cuesheet with 2SS pregaps and generate a ccd/img/sub that has the above specs for storing in my hdd.

Now this is the answer: if i dump an original ps1 multitrack disc the resulting ccd/img/sub has the same size of redump database or size is the one i said above [redumptotalsize]+(2352*75*2*X)?

If my burner shifts the audio of Y sectors (+6 in my case) the generated image from burned media won't match that of original disc?