1 (edited by yilez 2017-06-03 09:21:09)

Hi,

I have 2 copies of the xbox version of Jaws unleashed (Europe version), however they both fail ripping at around 40%. Is this just a coincidence, or do xbox discs have a known issue that causes degradation?

One of the discs is clearly rubbish (the print side has some see-through bits), but the other one looks pretty good to me.

Should I try cleaning it and see if it rips, or what? As these are rare, (and expensive) I want to be able to send it back if it is damaged, so don't want to do anything to make things worse.

Thanks.

Edit: Actually, they both have print-side scratches. Back they both go!

But question still stands - do xbox discs have any known degradation issue?

2 (edited by Jackal 2017-06-03 09:50:05)

yilez wrote:

Hi,

I have 2 copies of the xbox version of Jaws unleashed (Europe version), however they both fail ripping at around 40%. Is this just a coincidence, or do xbox discs have a known issue that causes degradation?

One of the discs is clearly rubbish (the print side has some see-through bits), but the other one looks pretty good to me.

Should I try cleaning it and see if it rips, or what? As these are rare, (and expensive) I want to be able to send it back if it is damaged, so don't want to do anything to make things worse.

Thanks.

Edit: Actually, they both have print-side scratches. Back they both go!

But question still stands - do xbox discs have any known degradation issue?

wiggy2k also has 2 copies of Jaws Unleashed that he was having trouble reading (he does have a polishing machine now though. Not sure if he managed to fix them) tongue either that's a coincidence, or there could be another reason for the errors than scratches/degradation (also in light of this discussion: http://forum.redump.org/topic/15998/ori … ergh-disc/ )

Could you share the SS.BIN, and tell us at exactly which sectors the errors start on both discs?

If the errors occur outside of any of the 23 security placeholder ranges, then at least we know that our dumping method isn't to blame.

3 (edited by yilez 2017-06-03 10:58:16)

Jackal wrote:
yilez wrote:

Hi,

I have 2 copies of the xbox version of Jaws unleashed (Europe version), however they both fail ripping at around 40%. Is this just a coincidence, or do xbox discs have a known issue that causes degradation?

One of the discs is clearly rubbish (the print side has some see-through bits), but the other one looks pretty good to me.

Should I try cleaning it and see if it rips, or what? As these are rare, (and expensive) I want to be able to send it back if it is damaged, so don't want to do anything to make things worse.

Thanks.

Edit: Actually, they both have print-side scratches. Back they both go!

But question still stands - do xbox discs have any known degradation issue?

wiggy2k also has 2 copies of Jaws Unleashed that he was having trouble reading (he does have a polishing machine now though. Not sure if he managed to fix them) tongue either that's a coincidence, or there could be another reason for the errors than scratches/degradation (also in light of this discussion: http://forum.redump.org/topic/15998/ori … ergh-disc/ )

Could you share the SS.BIN, and tell us at exactly which sectors the errors start on both discs?

If the errors occur outside of any of the 23 security placeholder ranges, then at least we know that our dumping method isn't to blame.

Sure, re-ripping now for confirmation. SS.bin attached.

sectors.txt here:

295500-299595
447266-451361
678714-682809
907758-911853
1067658-1071753
1294934-1299029
1450626-1454721
1602036-1606131
1985722-1989817
2293578-2297673
2444248-2448343
2677708-2681803
2836374-2840469
3065986-3070081
3223390-3227485
3457508-3461603

Edit: Funnily enough, I've been speaking to JayFoxRox about this on the xqemu IRC. I'll read that thread properly later.

Disc 1:

Dumping stutters at: 158????? (it started reading again before I could get the entire sector number)

Properly fails at: 1600642 (41%)

Disc 2 (this one appears slightly more damaged):

Dumping stutters at: 15114?? (it started reading again before I could get the entire sector number)

Properly fails at: 1511458 (39%)

Also, added the DMI.bin, just in case it is useful.

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4 (edited by Jackal 2017-06-03 12:34:09)

Thx.. the read errors are in different positions really, so I guess they are both caused by scratches.

@JayFoxRox: I got Excel to calculate the first 16 error ranges (just to see if that was possible tongue), but the remaining values in rows 17-23 don't look like they are start + end PSN's at all (and they are not in sequence with the previous 16 rows). Did you find any info about what these bytes might be?

http://i.imgur.com/qyCKw9V.png

5 (edited by JayFoxRox 2017-06-03 12:47:11)

//Edit: ninja'd by Jackal tongue

yilez wrote:

Edit: Funnily enough, I've been speaking to JayFoxRox about this on the xqemu IRC. I'll read that thread properly later.

I don't remember that; what's your nick / time so I can check what I said? (I keep logs because I tend to forget a lot of stuff tongue )
Also don't waste your time with that other thread - that is not the issue here.


Seeing how those fail at different addresses, this just sounds like a bad set of discs. - however, 3 broken discs (what Jackal said) of the same game does sound strange..

Do you have more information about each disc?
If they are the same, we might be able to just dump the broken sectors from the other one.
Also dumping at least parts of the discs, would still be a lot better than not dumping them at all (the information printed on the disc would be of interest so we can rule out a massive fabrication error if others have similar issues + partial hashes for the data track should be enough to generate a full hash later on if some people have the same disc).


Also I've checked the remaining SS range entries and they would equate to:

-7970541-3620644 # Garbage [negative = value too large]
929056--639302 # Garbage [negative]
-5647194-1871508 # Garbage [negative]
-4878751--9782664 # Garbage [negative]
1651512-1310022 # Garbage [start after end]
-10166893--2467619 # Garbage [negative]
-811541--8662161 # Garbage [negative]

So it indeed looks like only the first 16 entries of the SS ranges are used (Also both SS range tables match).


Another thing: What drive / FW did you use to dump it?


Personally I'm not aware of any degradation issues with Xbox games, but I haven't really looked into it. Keep in mind that those games are 15+ years old now. However, I noticed that I have a couple of games which have a broken Xbox DVD hologram. Somehow the plastic looks like it splittered internally or somehow (internally?!) was covered in oil. I'm not sure if the games came that way or when it happened. They still work fine though.
(See http://i.imgur.com/AZmmTUt.jpg - it looks a lot more severe in person, the scan doesn't do it justice. The hologram is almost gone at that point and you can just see-through the DVD)
However, this probably deserves a different topic altogether.

As Jackal said I had this problem with Jaws Unleashed, Also had two copies,

It appears that these discs were poorly printed. I have polished the data side to a mirror finish
But I suspect rot on the printed side is to blame, one of mine has literally flaked off in my hands the other has see through spots when held up to a light as mentioned above.

I'm looking out for a decent replacement.

7 (edited by yilez 2017-06-03 13:50:04)

JayFoxRox wrote:

//Edit: ninja'd by Jackal tongue

yilez wrote:

Edit: Funnily enough, I've been speaking to JayFoxRox about this on the xqemu IRC. I'll read that thread properly later.

I don't remember that; what's your nick / time so I can check what I said? (I keep logs because I tend to forget a lot of stuff tongue )
Also don't waste your time with that other thread - that is not the issue here.


Seeing how those fail at different addresses, this just sounds like a bad set of discs. - however, 3 broken discs (what Jackal said) of the same game does sound strange..

Do you have more information about each disc?
If they are the same, we might be able to just dump the broken sectors from the other one.
Also dumping at least parts of the discs, would still be a lot better than not dumping them at all (the information printed on the disc would be of interest so we can rule out a massive fabrication error if others have similar issues + partial hashes for the data track should be enough to generate a full hash later on if some people have the same disc).


Also I've checked the remaining SS range entries and they would equate to:

-7970541-3620644 # Garbage [negative = value too large]
929056--639302 # Garbage [negative]
-5647194-1871508 # Garbage [negative]
-4878751--9782664 # Garbage [negative]
1651512-1310022 # Garbage [start after end]
-10166893--2467619 # Garbage [negative]
-811541--8662161 # Garbage [negative]

So it indeed looks like only the first 16 entries of the SS ranges are used (Also both SS range tables match).


Another thing: What drive / FW did you use to dump it?


Personally I'm not aware of any degradation issues with Xbox games, but I haven't really looked into it. Keep in mind that those games are 15+ years old now. However, I noticed that I have a couple of games which have a broken Xbox DVD hologram. Somehow the plastic looks like it splittered internally or somehow (internally?!) was covered in oil. I'm not sure if the games came that way or when it happened. They still work fine though.
(See http://i.imgur.com/AZmmTUt.jpg - it looks a lot more severe in person, the scan doesn't do it justice. The hologram is almost gone at that point and you can just see-through the DVD)
However, this probably deserves a different topic altogether.

I'm eighthpence on the xqemu related stuff.

Drive is a SH-D163 with Kreon firmware.

EDIT: 3rd copy ordered. If this one doesn't dump, I'll give up.

Well this has prompted me to go check my local CeX
£35 later and this one looks ok......
Hopefully third time is a charm.

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9 (edited by Jackal 2017-06-03 17:08:11)

Weee big_smile I wonder why that game is so expensive anyway

Good luck. I was getting into the £50 mark. Also checked cex in Wrexham this afternoon just on the off chance. Nothing, though.

11 (edited by Jackal 2017-06-03 17:26:25)

yilez wrote:

Good luck. I was getting into the £50 mark. Also checked cex in Wrexham this afternoon just on the off chance. Nothing, though.

https://uk.webuy.com/product.php?sku=4005209081641

Store    In Stock
Clydebank    1
Guildford    1
Hull    1
North Shields    1
Nuneaton    1
Poole    1

Note to self. Learn how to use the Internet.

Unfortunately, I live nowhere near those places.

13 (edited by wiggy2k 2017-06-03 17:41:13)

I order loads online through CeX.
The delivery is £2.50 for the whole order so makes sense to order in bulk.

14 (edited by wiggy2k 2017-06-03 20:28:32)

Well I despair with this game.
This copy couldn't be in any better condition (see picture attached) but still fails with sense error around 15% with one Kreon drive (sh-d162c) and around 35% with another (TS-h353 cross flashed)  have tried around 5-6 attempts on each drive so far. Both drives have been fine for dumping other Xbox discs.

Gonna strip an old Xbox down and see if I can get an original Xbox drive attached somehow.

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Oh man, sorry to hear that. I look forward to seeing how you get on with different drive

Nuts! 5 discs, all with errors.. Is this game cursed?

Is it possible to glue valid sector ranges from all your copies?

Possibly, but I've had dump data rejected for confirmations before due to an iffy track.

http://forum.redump.org/post/38285/#p38285

I can't imagine several discs' data being stuck together being accepted. especially as there is nothing to compare it to.

wiggy2k wrote:

Well I despair with this game.
This copy couldn't be in any better condition (see picture attached) but still fails with sense error around 15% with one Kreon drive (sh-d162c) and around 35% with another (TS-h353 cross flashed)  have tried around 5-6 attempts on each drive so far. Both drives have been fine for dumping other Xbox discs.

Gonna strip an old Xbox down and see if I can get an original Xbox drive attached somehow.

Got the bugger!

Submitting dump data now.

Woohoo.

I had trouble reading the IFPI numbers:

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AlxYWxW6UVwdjaERZT93WOB8dm3FNw
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AlxYWxW6UVwdjaESARvVXxGlTG8zhg

In case someone can do a better job.

22 (edited by Jackal 2017-06-09 20:16:35)

yilez wrote:

I had trouble reading the IFPI numbers:

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AlxYWxW6UVwdjaERZT93WOB8dm3FNw
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AlxYWxW6UVwdjaESARvVXxGlTG8zhg

In case someone can do a better job.

IFPI 0784 < added as 07B4 (could be wrong)
IFPI 0739 < that's the best I can make of it too

Jackal wrote:
yilez wrote:

I had trouble reading the IFPI numbers:

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AlxYWxW6UVwdjaERZT93WOB8dm3FNw
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AlxYWxW6UVwdjaESARvVXxGlTG8zhg

In case someone can do a better job.

IFPI 0784 < added as 07B4 (could be wrong)
IFPI 0739 < that's the best I can make of it too

Thanks.

Also, just tested languages:

Languages (selected by BIOS)

English
German
French
Spanish
Italian

I was a bit too eager to get this submitted.

yilez wrote:
wiggy2k wrote:

Well I despair with this game.
This copy couldn't be in any better condition (see picture attached) but still fails with sense error around 15% with one Kreon drive (sh-d162c) and around 35% with another (TS-h353 cross flashed)  have tried around 5-6 attempts on each drive so far. Both drives have been fine for dumping other Xbox discs.

Gonna strip an old Xbox down and see if I can get an original Xbox drive attached somehow.

Got the bugger!

Submitting dump data now.

Could you clarify what specifically you did to get this working?

I have a few games exhibiting similar behavior. Dead to Rights and Rally Fusion are two current examples, but there may be more (I have a backlog of 100+ undumped games)

You won't like my answer...

I kept buying new copies until one worked. I think I had to buy 3 or 4 copies altogether.