"Negative" Pregap?

hydr0x · 2009-09-23 10:02:51

hydr0x
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Registered: 2009-07-07
Posts: 46

I'm trying to dump Interstate 76 and EAC detects a track 2 pregap of 0s. Looking at the sector view in ISOBuster, Sector 2 starts with block 159844. Now, this block is filled with data. I tried going back 1s, 2s but couldn't find the end of track 1. So I went up block by block and indeed reached the end of data in block 159847. It looks like this:

LBA :159847

0000 : 13 64 0D EB 45 8F 73 24  25 DB 5B 1B 7B 4B 63 77   .d..E.s$%.[.{Kcw
0010 : 69 E6 AE CA FC 57 01 FE  80 40 60 30 CF 99 10 2C   i....W...@`0...,
0020 : 48 64 36 AB 56 FF 7E C0  06 72 08 C9 0A 91 C7 2C   Hd6.V.~..r.....,
0030 : 52 9D FD A9 81 BE E0 70  48 24 36 9B 56 EB 7E CF   R......pH$6.V.~.
0040 : 60 54 28 3F 5E 90 38 6C  12 AD CD BD 95 B1 AF 34   `T(?^.8l.......4
0050 : 7C 17 61 CE A8 54 7E BF  60 70 28 24 1E 9B 48 6B   |.a..T~.`p($..Hk
0060 : 76 AF 66 FC 2A C1 DF 10  58 0C 3A 85 D3 23 1D D9   v.f.*...X.:..#..
0070 : C9 9A E2 61 0C 37 48 54  36 BF 56 F0 3E C4 03 42   ...a.7HT6.V.>..B
0080 : 44 C9 F5 D1 87 1C 62 89  E9 A6 CE FA D4 43 1F 71   D.....b......C.q
0090 : C8 24 56 9B 7E EB 60 4F  68 34 2E 97 5C 6E B9 EC   .$V.~.`Oh4..\n..
00A0 : 72 CD E5 95 8B 2F 27 5C  1A B9 CB 32 D7 55 9E BF   r..../'\...2.U..
00B0 : 28 70 1E A4 08 7B 46 A3  72 F9 E5 82 CB 21 97 58   (p...{F.r....!.X
00C0 : 6E BA AC 73 3D E5 D1 8B  CF 60 55 B1 B6 CF 36 D4   n..s=....`U...6.
00D0 : 16 DF 4E D8 4E E3 97 7B  2E A3 5C 79 F9 E2 C2 C9   ..N.N..{..\y....
00E0 : 91 96 EC 6E CD EC 55 8D  FF 25 E7 1F 75 37 8F 5F   ...n..U..%..u7._
00F0 : 9F E2 A3 21 B9 D8 72 DA  A5 9B 3B 2B 53 5F 7D F8   ...!..r...;+S_}.
0100 : 21 82 89 04 8B 31 35 7B  EF 9A 78 0C 22 85 D9 A3   !....15{..x."...
0110 : 1A F9 CB 02 D7 41 9E B0  68 74 2E A7 5C 7A D0 44   .....A..ht..\z.D
0120 : 92 80 2A 1F E9 49 D8 1C  5A 89 FB 26 C3 5A D1 FB   ..*..I..Z..&.Z..
0130 : 1C 43 49 F1 F6 C4 47 43  7D 92 A4 CC 00 00 00 00   .CI...GC}.......
0140 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0150 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0160 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0170 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0180 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0190 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
01A0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
01B0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
01C0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
01D0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
01E0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
01F0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0200 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0210 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0220 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0230 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0240 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0250 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0260 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0270 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0280 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0290 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
02A0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
02B0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
02C0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
02D0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
02E0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
02F0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0300 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0310 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0320 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0330 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0340 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0350 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0360 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0370 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0380 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0390 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
03A0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
03B0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
03C0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
03D0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
03E0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
03F0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0400 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0410 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0420 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0430 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0440 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0450 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0460 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0470 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0480 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0490 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
04A0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
04B0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
04C0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
04D0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
04E0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
04F0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0500 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0510 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0520 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0530 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0540 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0550 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0560 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0570 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0580 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0590 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
05A0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
05B0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
05C0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
05D0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
05E0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
05F0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0600 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0610 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0620 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0630 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0640 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0650 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0660 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0670 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0680 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0690 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
06A0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
06B0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
06C0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
06D0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
06E0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
06F0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0700 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0710 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0720 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0730 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0740 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0750 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0760 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0770 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0780 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0790 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
07A0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
07B0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
07C0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
07D0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
07E0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
07F0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0800 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0810 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0820 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0830 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0840 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0850 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0860 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0870 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0880 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0890 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
08A0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
08B0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
08C0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
08D0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
08E0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
08F0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0900 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0910 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0920 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................

How can I correctly dump this game?

provato · 2009-09-24 12:04:24

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From: Trikala - Greece
Registered: 2008-02-03
Posts: 286

First of all, there is NO negative pregap .
I guess there are three things that might be happening here...:

1) Track 02 has data inside the pregap (!! unusual but not impossible)

2) These three sectors are filled with garbage (produced by your physical drive)

3) IF track 02 pregap is indeed 0 sec, the data track might overlap into the audio track

***Note that you must check with other tools (like CloneCD cuesheet file) to determine what the pregap is, because EAC will always show 0 sec for cds that have 1 data + 1 audio track.

Please write more information about the game (what console, how many tracks, region, etc..)

hydr0x · 2009-09-24 13:37:45

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Posts: 46

provato wrote:

First of all, there is NO negative pregap .

Guess why I put it in ""

1) Track 02 has data inside the pregap (!! unusual but not impossible)

yep, this might be the case, although 3) is more likely

2) These three sectors are filled with garbage (produced by your physical drive)

ISOBuster reported garbage for 159844-159846 but not for 159847

3) IF track 02 pregap is indeed 0 sec, the data track might overlap into the audio track

I think this is most likely, how would I dump it?

***Note that you must check with other tools (like CloneCD cuesheet file) to determine what the pregap is, because EAC will always show 0 sec for cds that have 1 data + 1 audio track.

It does have multiple audio tracks but if you'd upload me CloneCD I'd give it a try

Please write more information about the game (what console, how many tracks, region, etc..)

Sorry, it's a PC game. German re-release by SoftPrice, not sure about the number of tracks but more than 2

provato · 2009-09-24 19:16:37

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From: Trikala - Greece
Registered: 2008-02-03
Posts: 286

How do you know garbage is only for 159844-159846? I mean.. 159847 sector seems to have garbage data to me.

Maybe finding the write offset of the disc could really help in your situation. Plz ask Fireball on how to find the write offset using a "trap disc" or talk to iR0b0t in the channel to take a look at the sectors and do his magic

Also plz post the cue file of the CCD here to determine the track 02 pregap

We also need the read offset of the drive that is showing these sectors (that is why I told u we need more info on the drive + game cd)

hydr0x · 2009-09-24 21:41:26

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Posts: 46

provato wrote:

How do you know garbage is only for 159844-159846? I mean.. 159847 sector seems to have garbage data to me.

What I meant was that IsoBuster reports those sectors as not being read correctly by the drive (can't remember the exact wording, I guess you know that message, the one were you can choose between retry, ignore and cancel) but it does not complain about 159847. Of course this doesn't mean the data isn't useless either way

Maybe finding the write offset of the disc could really help in your situation. Plz ask Fireball on how to find the write offset using a "trap disc" or talk to iR0b0t in the channel to take a look at the sectors and do his magic

I'm pretty sure we already discussed those other methods in another topic and my drive (LG4167B) is not well suited for them. iR0b0t may sure take a look at the sectors (i can post their content tomorrow) but unfortunately I only have the disc for one more day before it ends up in storage again.

Also plz post the cue file of the CCD here to determine the track 02 pregap

please upload ccd for me as I don't have a full version

We also need the read offset of the drive that is showing these sectors (that is why I told u we need more info on the drive + game cd)

Where did you tell me to give you more details about the drive? Well, the read offset is +667 and I had no similar problems with this drive before (see my other dumps)

tossEAC · 2009-09-24 22:10:25

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Try a drive with a large offsett.

ie one above +647.

Try again with this drive and you should see zeroe's where you expected.

Q: What drive did you use (just the offset will tell me all I need)?

Negative pregap doesn't exist, but negative factory write offsett does, think you meant the latter.

He who controls the SPICE... controls the UNIVERSE!
The SPICE must flow.

provato · 2009-09-25 00:47:52

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From: Trikala - Greece
Registered: 2008-02-03
Posts: 286

hydr0x wrote:

please upload ccd for me as I don't have a full version

I've sent you a pm.

Ok, just a thought: since isobuster sector view begins at 159844 for track 02, and track 02 has pregap 0 sec, and you see garbage until 19,75 rows of sector 159847, then here is the deal:

2352 + 2352 + (19,75*16) = 5020 bytes of garbage
5020/4 = 1255 samples
THEN: +1255 = (write offset) + 667 => (write offset) = +588

BUT: You have to see sync data in sector 159843 and before this one
(sync data = first row data that begin with FF ....)

***Try in another drive with different (than +667) read offset. You must always find cd write offset of +588 with those calculations. If you don't, then there is smth else happenning there

iR0b0t · 2009-09-26 17:43:01

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unfortunately I only have the disc for one more day before it ends up in storage again.

Don't know if he still has that disc (?)

PX-760A (+30), PX-W4824TA (+98), GSA-H42L (+667), GDR-8164B (+102), SH-D162D (+6), SOHD-167T (+12)

"Negative" Pregap?

Posts: 8

1 Topic by hydr0x 2009-09-23 10:02:51

2 Reply by provato 2009-09-24 12:04:24

3 Reply by hydr0x 2009-09-24 13:37:45

4 Reply by provato 2009-09-24 19:16:37 (edited by provato 2009-09-24 19:18:45)

5 Reply by hydr0x 2009-09-24 21:41:26

6 Reply by tossEAC 2009-09-24 22:10:25 (edited by tossEAC 2009-09-24 22:12:23)

7 Reply by provato 2009-09-25 00:47:52

8 Reply by iR0b0t 2009-09-26 17:43:01

Posts: 8