Sega Dreamcast is heading towards a PAL and USA fullset. A friend has offered to grant me access to his USA DC fullset after Christmas (pending I can raise shipping funds), and AJ and I are working on a video dumping guide.

As USA / PAL DC sets begin to wind down, we're in need of a better solution for emulator developers to implement support for the redump DC sets.

Fireball has expressed interest in shifting to a multi-cue format instead of GDI, and I believe that would be the best move to make. If redump could implement multi-cue, I would be happy to get into touch with emu devs to bridge the disconnection between what we're doing and what they're doing - allowing the redump DC sets to actually be useful.

Emulators, both software and Optical Drive Emulators that replace the disc drive in a real Dreamcast, do not currently support Redump's GDI dumps as the format was simply not designed to accomodate for the way we store our dumps. It's important that for our dumps to be useful, at all, that we store it in a more appropriate format that emulator developers will be willing to implement.

PX-4824TA (offset +98), PX-716A (offset +30)

I assume this new format would be just as accurate?

>I assume this new format would be just as accurate?

Yeah same data / track hashes, just easier for devs to access.

We'll be fundraising soon for the redump DC set, so "hey we can't use any of your dumps" seems like a pretty accurate criticism people might have, and emu devs won't be adding GDI support beyond what exists. With multi-cue and diplomacy, i'm sure we can get support added.

So if data / track hashes stay the same, what's the problem with emu devs, can't they just generate the cues internally on the fly?

>So if data / track hashes stay the same, what's the problem with emu devs, can't they just generate the cues internally on the fly?

No incentive. They're happy with the TOSEC sets. This makes the Redump sets completely worthless / useless in all practical sense. GDI is an all around terrible decision. You may as well have asked "Why won't they wipe our asses?"

GDI format lacks of track pregap length, which is needed for generating the cues. That's the main reason it can't work.

PX-760A (+30), PX-W4824TA (+98), GSA-H42L (+667), GDR-8164B (+102), SH-D162D (+6), SOHD-167T (+12)

8 (edited by user7 2018-11-26 21:53:44)

Add placeholder pregap lengths? Not seeing how that would be any worse.

Right now the Redump DC set is a problem. Emu devs won't touch it. This is a fault of the redump DC system and an issue that needs resolution.

"multi-cue" is a cuesheet with multiple binary tracks, like we have already for the other systems? Multi session PC discs also have a "normal" cuesheet. So all that is needed is to replace the gdi download with .cue?

IIRC this would also allow submission of unlicensed DC discs such as Action Replay / GameShark.

Multi cue as one for LD area and one for HD area.

Schrodinger wrote:

Multi cue as one for LD area and one for HD area.

What's the benefit of that? 2 cue's are a nuisance. Can't we just have a single .cue with the HD area starting at Track 03?

Both sessions are independent and not connected with each other. Dreamcast also has 2 indendent "read TOC" commands for LD and HD areas. These are 2 separated images, need 2 cues.

F1ReB4LL wrote:

Both sessions are independent and not connected with each other. Dreamcast also has 2 indendent "read TOC" commands for LD and HD areas. These are 2 separated images, need 2 cues.

That's just a technicality. If you create 2 different sets of dump files with different .cue and filenames, and 2 archives for a single disc, this will be a bigger issue than what we have now.

Something like this in a single set?

Game.ld.cue
Game.hd.cue
Game (Track 1) (LD).bin / Game (LD) (Track 1).bin
Game (Track 2) (LD).bin / Game (LD) (Track 2).bin
Game (Track 3) (HD).bin / Game (HD) (Track 1).bin

Jackal wrote:

That's just a technicality. If you create 2 different sets of dump files with different .cue and filenames, and 2 archives for a single disc, this will be a bigger issue than what we have now.

A single set, a single archive, just 2 cues.

Like, Official Sega Dreamcast Magazine Vol. 11 - February 2001 (USA).LD.cue with the tracks 1 and 2 and Official Sega Dreamcast Magazine Vol. 11 - February 2001 (USA).HD.cue with the tracks 3, 4 and 5. You can mount the LD to some virtual drive and work with it exactly like you would work with a normal GD inserted into a PC drive. Emu devs may support either running the HD cue only or some kind of auto-mounting the LD cue additionally when the HD cue is selected.

F1ReB4LL wrote:
Jackal wrote:

That's just a technicality. If you create 2 different sets of dump files with different .cue and filenames, and 2 archives for a single disc, this will be a bigger issue than what we have now.

A single set, a single archive, just 2 cues.

Like, Official Sega Dreamcast Magazine Vol. 11 - February 2001 (USA).LD.cue with the tracks 1 and 2 and Official Sega Dreamcast Magazine Vol. 11 - February 2001 (USA).HD.cue with the tracks 3, 4 and 5. You can mount the LD to some virtual drive and work with it exactly like you would work with a normal GD inserted into a PC drive. Emu devs may support either running the HD cue only or some kind of auto-mounting the LD cue additionally when the HD cue is selected.


So like this?

My concern is that "Track 3" is actually "Track 1" in the HD cue. That'll get confusing fast.

Post's attachments

Official Sega Dreamcast Magazine Vol. 11 - February 2001 (USA) (HD).cue 457 b, 4 downloads since 2018-11-29 

Official Sega Dreamcast Magazine Vol. 11 - February 2001 (USA) (LD).cue 294 b, 2 downloads since 2018-11-29 

You don't have the permssions to download the attachments of this post.

18 (edited by Jackal 2018-11-29 07:23:15)

Could we decide with a poll which cue gets chosen?

And if 2 .cue's becomes the standard, the disc page should be modified to split the 2 areas?

Also, regardless of how many .cue's are chosen, we need to discuss the HD data track pregap. The sector address never starts at 02:00 IIRC, so there should be an INDEX, so that this track will load (and show contents) properly in tools like cdmage?

Why dont we come up with a new format .RGDI   ?

keeping mostly the same format as GDI but with pregap offsets in it.

would be no less or more work for emulator devs to incorporate that into their current gdi/cue parser routines.

i started reading this thread but got lost in all the technical jargon:  https://dknute.livejournal.com/42778.html

.rgdi can be optional, but cue is a more standard way, also lets you to use 'normal' tools to work with the LD area.

Why dont you ask other DC Emu devs about this? Inolen from Redream was happy to know about the format change and he told me we can count on him.

Im sure if we ask to the Reicast Libretro devs would be happy to share their thoughts too.

diego-rbb-93 wrote:

Im sure if we ask to the Reicast Libretro devs would be happy to share their thoughts too.

"Use TOSEC's system."

I'm in touch with the gentleman inolen from redream, he says adding support for the two cue system will be easy and he's ready to do so.

A possible single-cue file alternative:

REM SINGLE-DENSITY AREA
FILE "Official Sega Dreamcast Magazine Vol. 11 - February 2001 (USA) (Track 1).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 01 MODE1/2352
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "Official Sega Dreamcast Magazine Vol. 11 - February 2001 (USA) (Track 2).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
REM HIGH-DENSITY AREA
FILE "Official Sega Dreamcast Magazine Vol. 11 - February 2001 (USA) (Track 3).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 01 MODE1/2352
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "Official Sega Dreamcast Magazine Vol. 11 - February 2001 (USA) (Track 4).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Official Sega Dreamcast Magazine Vol. 11 - February 2001 (USA) (Track 5).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 03 MODE1/2352
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:03:00

25

So, I will come back to this topic since some people think this is my fault why it was not implemented yet.

Both variants: 2 cues & 1 cue can be accepted. I may code them both actually to avoid further bashing.

For the second alternative with a single cuesheet i want to have a clearness about following:

REM SINGLE-DENSITY AREA

SINGLE- or LOW-DENSITY ?

PX-760A (+30), PX-W4824TA (+98), GSA-H42L (+667), GDR-8164B (+102), SH-D162D (+6), SOHD-167T (+12)