Topic: [FIXED][PS2] title fix

http://redump.org/disc/39814

Ripuru no Tamago: Apprentice Magician

"Ripuru" is the official spelling.
Why did you change?

Re: [FIXED][PS2] title fix

I discussed this with another Asian dumper and we thought since 'リプル' is katakana and for foreign language it should be 'Ripple' and not 'Ripuru'.

If you feel otherwise, please discuss further.

Thanks for registering this disc!

3 (edited by fuzzball 2016-10-24 00:39:28)

Re: [FIXED][PS2] title fix

from manual
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/C6In6f3dJ0PzHpR0iXV6YsmTDlQGjwpi-PMAJ2uKsIYhoJPWg_SU6p9yL10ak7YHUtiWX_Wc880zuUF0giVCZb4gN3cWX0SdRLIkpK1cWITsJwjE6n-Tv_fTZpXt9twOSB-voqumWeb_arc0WhrYdJb2J2SAprKQJA9ZvsrMYn_QlxpxNJQBiqV3hchGSywIYcVl1Gwy7TbDfUG9qFZj3vK21VyCi6bksqyqOHQBYbNAiawKjThJLML_4Ny_uCln4tXAHtqOQ9F9n0WJViILlsXfXiOA0DhtT0VWdR-j4eD1sj6bRHjqog9ekg8GRV_ioxvKKEY314MHUbZe1hZJk_BoIk_956jzv5ux-5CHtJAAvKJJQko2o2RCdvu4fDYYHtonWzLEDVNMoDu1AR9jXtUtemKAE2RgoXqjJueJsgInNR1F4qBd6VrP_PNATSyP-Gk9FYDYYwRqXfF8Jl4l6IHtuAvZBl7HDyFM5srrlS0OMAFQcRSVyj1Ujmk0uTOQ2FL07GR5cqH7haoFiezwlfDZbxVyxMlijYTQFBbnRkI8I6krK_d5RNpwdwJp_Hb79Iu3A6yxky1Af7fjmovxs3vyi3x_eAdIvIVO6fXHji9Ic6eV=w448-h150-no

Re: [FIXED][PS2] title fix

Well, that solves that issue.

Thanks for the manual scan fuzzball!

5 (edited by Egen 2016-10-23 08:38:09)

Re: [FIXED][PS2] title fix

It doesn't really solve the issue, actually. Why isn't the manual scan working anymore? I was interested in seeing this. Sometimes an "official" romanization is just the case of the Japanese being really bad with transliterating their own words into English. I know that VGMdb and GameFAQs both have this as Ripple.  Play-Asia even has a game in this series as Ripple, and in fact... so does probably everywhere else on the internet, honestly. Putting it as Ripuru just because it was poorly spelled like that in the instruction booklet isn't a very good reason to change it. If your only definition of official is "bad romanization appearing in the booklet", then we should go hunt down a lot of other bad spellings and change a lot of stuff to be stupid >__>

But like I said, I was trying to view the manual scan to see if maybe there's a good reason to romanize リプル as ripuru. Would be nice to be able to see that scan.

Re: [FIXED][PS2] title fix

^^^^ Gamefaqs is not authoritative, nor are resellers. Just saying.

Fuzzball usually gets things right.

*

I can't see the image either. There are at least 2 games + a drama CD, so it will save time to attach the documentation to this post as a reference for the next time this argument erupts.

Re: [FIXED][PS2] title fix

Well, if the internet is your source, you should look a little further then:

http://www.play-asia.com/ripuru-no-tama … n/13/702dl

or the audio cd:

https://www.amazon.com/Ripuru-No-Tamago … B00009WKW4

or how about IGN:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2003/06/06/ … -japan-201

So 'Ripuro' does exist and this naming issue is not so cut and dry as you state. It wasn't changed "just because it was poorly spelled like that in the instruction booklet".

fuzzball: please put the proper manual scan back as the one that is here no longer works, as I would like to document this naming with this forum post.

Re: [FIXED][PS2] title fix

ack2121 wrote:

Well, if the internet is your source, you should look a little further then

Meh, these aren't proofs.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lets-Go-Teke-Te … 4d4d46417e -- someone spelled "Toy" as "Toilet" here, so what?

If to leave it as "Ripuru" and if it's not "Ripple", what does this word mean, then?

Re: [FIXED][PS2] title fix

@ Egen, "ripple"' is a lot easier for English speakers to pronounce so it's no surprise teh internet uses it a lot.

Looks like the name of something to me. When it comes to names, you can't make assumptions about the correct transliteration. (add underlined part to upcoming conventions wiki document)

There are many possible combinations of Latin letters that can be legitimately transliterated as リプル. Absent evidence that it is figuratively or literally referring to the physical effect known in English as "ripple", there is no reason to go against the manual.

If such evidence surfaces then change it back, not that big of a deal.

Re: [FIXED][PS2] title fix

You just need to be sure it means "Ripple", not, dunno, "Reaper" or "Ripper".

Re: [FIXED][PS2] title fix

^^^^ Yes, some English words are ambiguous when written in katakana like ラップ, ファン, so you already understand the reason one cannot make assumptions about name transliteration.

In this case they translated たまご and の into English in the manual but not リプル so it's highly likely リプル is not an English word at all but rather a name or possibly an invented word.

*

Transliterating Names and Invented Words

Do research.

If official transliteration found, use it. Else use standard romanization as if it were any Japanese word.

If conflicting official transliterations found, a judgement call will be required.

*

I don't have anything more to add. You guys can keep arguing with Egen if you like. smile

12 (edited by Egen 2016-10-23 22:41:06)

Re: [FIXED][PS2] title fix

Don't know why you think anyone's arguing with me, and by the way, I would be the first to say what all you guys are saying about translating katakana, it's a ***** and you don't need to inform me of that smile In fact I've explained that exact same stuff myself to other people. I've been translating Japanese for nearly a decade now and you personally know I'm knowledgeable in it MigaMan, as you quoted a post of mine explaining rendaku (euphony) in very great detail. I'm also familiar with how the Japanese tend to butcher their own transliterations of it into English. It happens... or we can think that his name is really Adoru wink Official soundtrack right there guys.

So you guys can rage all you want at my post, I just have a legitimate reason to question whether "ripuru" is an actual good transliteration of リプル or not. When a picture of a booklet gets posted and then disappears one day later and nobody else can examine it, I'm not really that convinced that somebody didn't just look at a bad transliteration and go "oh well it was in a booklet so okay gospel". Sorry if you think that's uncool, but it's necessary. By the way, it is INCREDIBLY common for bad transliteration to occur with the ル or 'ru' character because it is the L/R character in Japanese. Both my example and what we're discussing use that exact character and there are so many more examples of it too.



EDIT: Also, of course I know that none of those sites are in any sort of "official" capacity (minus the Ys soundtrack calling Adol "ADORU" officially), but please consider that you're taking the word リプル and going against basically every single instance of it being "ripple", as well as all of the sources I listed on this particular product calling it "ripple", and instead opting to go with something that looks blatantly like really bad Engrish. When you do something like that, try to have a little more than just "oh it was in a page on the booklet that nobody on Redump can see because the image disappeared in less than a day". When you're dealing with something whose majority is overwhelmingly (read: literally 100%) in favor of リプル being ripple, try to provide a little more than that to overturn something so seemingly obvious.

I'm not saying it isn't ripuru, I'm just not convinced and I don't know why any of us should be based on what we've been given, which is very close to nothing right now smile Thanks.



EDIT2:

F1ReB4LL wrote:

You just need to be sure it means "Ripple", not, dunno, "Reaper" or "Ripper".

Reaper: リーパー
Ripper: リッパー
The first puts emphasis on the vowel sound (by use of the choonpu) while the second puts emphasis on the consonant (by use of the sokuon). リプル isn't really even that close, other than it starts with リ I guess.

13 (edited by Egen 2016-10-23 22:44:58)

Re: [FIXED][PS2] title fix

By the way just so this gets across in case people were responding to my post when I made some edits:

Adol's official name on the Japanese Falcom website
https://www.falcom.co.jp/ysf/character/adol.html

Adol's name being spelled ADORU on an official music CD published by Falcom
http://vgmdb.net/album/6824 (track 29)

So I don't want to hear "it was in the booklet" as a defense to take a word that has meant ripple 100% of its friggin LIFETIME to mean "ripuru" which is very likely typical bad romanization of the ル character. The ADORU problem is also a case of bad romanization of the ル character because it is the same character for L/R in the Japanese and they often do the wrong thing with it. Give me some proof that's not the case with "ripuru" in the booklet, or you just have yourself another ADORU, and we all know that's wrong.

Re: [FIXED][PS2] title fix

It's the third time I've uploaded and attached to this post.

Post's attachments

ripuru.jpg 30.43 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

You don't have the permssions to download the attachments of this post.

15 (edited by Egen 2016-10-24 01:13:31)

Re: [FIXED][PS2] title fix

Thanks for uploading that. But I'm still only as convinced it's Ripuru as I am convinced it's Adoru given that Adoru appears in a printed, official booklet from Falcom themselves as well. Here, I'll break down what I see here.

1: リプル which is a time-established katakana spelling of the loanword "ripple".
2: Really bad Engrish in a Japanese PlayStation manual.
3: No proof that "ripuru" isn't bad Engrish and is instead some sort of name.
4: Some folks trying to uproot the time-established katakana spelling of the loanword "ripple" with one example in a PlayStation booklet and a few websites, some of which also use the other spelling so they're clearly confused.

Honestly, not sure what the basis is for assuming that the transliteration "ripuru" can be taken seriously here. I'm only trying to get you guys to see that, just because a picture surfaces of what is very likely Engrish in a PlayStation manual that goes against a time-established transliteration of リプル being ripple, doesn't mean you should just jump to changing the darn thing right away. Maybe use a little judgment beforehand and say "okay, should I trust this thing even though mistakes are made all the time with L/R and the ル character?" Of course you'd need to be familiar with Japanese and the mistakes committed in that language to ask yourself that I guess.

But whatever, I've said all I can say and if you guys still want to change it to ripuru then you do what you want.  This is as much as I can get you to see. Ripuru isn't necessarily wrong, I'm just saying I don't think we have enough to overturn something as established as リプル being the word ripple.

Re: [FIXED][PS2] title fix

Thank you for the additional comments Egen and that may indeed be the case, time will tell.

For anyone interested in the content of this game by the publisher (D3), here is a link:

http://www.d3p.co.jp/ripuru/

Re: [FIXED][PS2] title fix

fuzzball wrote:

It's the third time I've uploaded and attached to this post.

Well, I'd say "egg of ripple" would sound weird. So it's important to understand, what (or whom?) do they call by this word.

18 (edited by Egen 2016-10-24 02:50:59)

Re: [FIXED][PS2] title fix

Yeah, could be Ripuru, Ripple or even Wripple. Keep in mind that の doesn't have to mean possession 100% of the time—this can be something like "Ripple Egg". For example, an item in a game called 戦士の勲章 could be translated simply as Warrior Medal, doesn't have to be possessive or ___ of ___. Not like that makes much more sense than... well, anything else at this point, but just another consideration.

ack2121, thank you, I read the story part and I'd say the most relevant text for our discussion here is:

使い手に選ばれたのは宮廷魔術師(リプル)の見習いの『あなた』…
…と同じく見習のライバル『ルチル』。

That part of the story says that the court magician is ripple/ripuru—that's the part that reads 宮廷魔術師(リプル). Unfortunately, them officially writing out any kind of romanization of リプル seems to be a one-time thing in the booklet. It's hard because of the huge L/R problem with ル in Japanese—CONGRATURATION, anyone? I personally don't want to tackle this one without even one more official instance of "ripuru". Thanks for listening to me and I'm done going on about it tongue you can carry on and change it how you like, just wanted people to consider other possibilities smile