1

(1,653 replies, posted in General discussion)

Rib Today at 5:44 PM
it works

2

(1,653 replies, posted in General discussion)

@sarami, DIC doesnt detect SecuROM for this disc and gives empty subIntention: http://redump.org/disc/57096/

the sector -1 is apparently different from newer (4.68.00 and higher) SecuROM versions: http://redump.org/disc/37956/

RibShark wrote:

How many read retries are required on average?

You could try with a max of 50 retries. Also be sure first to set the read speed to 4x, by starting a dump at 4x and then retrying cdarchive. If it still wont read so many sectors, I guess you have a wrong model.

RibShark wrote:

Optiarc AD-7170S does not appear to be able to read every sector. When attempting to dump http://redump.org/disc/43106/, the drive fails to read sectors 2178-2184. So not all Optiarc drives are good for dumping physical ring protection.

Did you use cdarchive to read backwards with enough read retries?

5

(9 replies, posted in General discussion)

sarami wrote:
Jackal wrote:

Fair Strike + HellForces + Cold War Conflicts are newer titles with a different type of LaserLock "Star", which has the error sectors at the end of the disc.
For Cold War Conflicts, the redump image seems to work.
Fair Strike + HellForces seem to need DPM/RPMS. A CloneCD image alone wasn't sufficient.

Good works. Btw, is LaserLock "Star" different from LaserLock MARATHON? https://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/c … thon.shtml

No idea, I just found the name "LaserLock Star" somewhere, maybe we should just call it LaserLock NEW? tongue

6

(9 replies, posted in General discussion)

https://img-16.ccm2.net/cPafcOLIJof7F1ucGLdYP-BRtXQ=/3da041f562bd4ff9b8a3f9f8586eb88f/ccm-faq/AlGX0Jra-cohol5-s-.png

It's strange that they are listing it separately, so maybe subchannels aren't used but something else. I also read in other places that "with a 1:1 image, emulation isn't needed".

Does it mean cue+bin (no sub) image can't run?

Asghan and V2000 are crashing at startup (and Asghan somehow works with emulation enabled), but it could be because of other issues or compatibility problems.

I tested some other games (Icewind Dale + Spec Ops + Evolva, and before also other games) with normal redump images without without subchannels, and they worked.

Fair Strike + HellForces + Cold War Conflicts are newer titles with a different type of LaserLock "Star", which has the error sectors at the end of the disc.
For Cold War Conflicts, the redump image seems to work.
Fair Strike + HellForces seem to need DPM/RPMS. A CloneCD image alone wasn't sufficient.

So I'm giving up for now. There is no evidence that any LaserLock games are using subchannels. Maybe reentrant can also double check his Fallout 2 disc to be sure.

Did you check the pregap of track1 and lead-in and lead-out?

Pregap yes, lead-in and lead-out no.

7

(9 replies, posted in General discussion)

sarami wrote:

http://www.laserlock.com/faq.html#canLLProtectMixed
Official site says

Can LaserLock protect Mixed Mode CDs?
LaserLock can protect the PC part of mixed mode CDs. Audio tracks cannot be protected and are not affected by the protection.

They must be talking about the bad sectors, not the subchannels.

After rereading some sectors, it seems obvious that the 1-bit crc errors are normal read errors and not part of the protection.
I'm still checking, but so far I haven't found any obvious protection data on any of the discs.
Or is it possible that drives modify the data and correct the crc bytes when they shouldn't?

8

(9 replies, posted in General discussion)

edit: It turned out to be a wild goose chase

9

(1,653 replies, posted in General discussion)

Here a dump with CATALOG 000000000000 (one 0 less than normal): http://redump.org/disc/55821/

Logs: https://mega.nz/#!T1gSQS6Q!L-frCQXIBkqX … fy3Pf41Fo8

DIC bug?

reentrant wrote:

Is it safe to assume those tools produced proper track 1? PSX games don't have mastering errors?

Multitrack games with No EDC have ECC/EDC added in the last sector. This is a known bug in the Sony CD Generator software. Some drives aren't able to dump this sector properly.

Thanks for reporting this. I checked those dumps and the last sector was scrambled and did not contain the correct data. I've fixed this by running psxt001z --fix on the data track and then using injector.

psxt001z - http://redump.org/download/psxt001z-0.21b1.7z
injector - http://www.mediafire.com/file/bmv7lavdg … r-0.1b.zip

I guess we should do a thorough recheck on all the other multitrack PSX dumps to see if there are more dumps with this issue.

sarami wrote:

Thanks info. Do these discs have the ring on the different file like http://forum.redump.org/post/63714/#p63714?

They are also inside large exe files IIRC, but the IFPI LL21 are different type than "Unnamed CD.IDX" because you can't dump them in DIC and the last sectors have to be dumped with cdarchive like Ring ProTECH.

The barcode is 4891779103179 .
It's also available on medimops.de.
There are other discs (CD's) with similar LL21 ringcodes and Ring protection: http://redump.org/discs/quicksearch/rin … code/ll21/

DVD's don't have bad sectors (afaik)

15

(1,653 replies, posted in General discussion)

sarami wrote:
XTac wrote:

DIC cannot find the copy protection on the disc (which should be CD.IDX dummy file)

There isn't CD.IDX and there is 15 zip files in your disc. Perhaps CD.IDX is archived in zip.

There are different variants of this protection and there isn't always a CD.IDX file. For this disc, the error sectors are in the DATA.CAB file range. The only way to get a dump that matches redump is to manually execute "eccedc fix" on the image. I don't know if it will work with the default version or if you need the modified version from reentrant.

I only tested the AD-7280S.. @reentrant which model did you have?

sarami wrote:

@Jackal, reentrant
Btw, did you test all vendor drive (nec, hitachi-lg, matsushita, teac, tsst, asus etc.) except optiarc and plextor?
Is optiarc really best drive for ring protect like laserlock or proring?

For LaserLock, the PX-760A also seems able to read the sectors, but it takes longer to retry every sector.

Some Lite-On drives (e.g. SOHD-167T) might also give good results, but I didn't test them.

Samsung SH-D162D, LG GDR-8164B are no good for these discs.

Ok so the errors are in the last track?

You need to get a DIC dump with separate .bin tracks when you're going to submit the dump later.
For CDArchive you need to use the combined image (= .img file).. Then after you extracted all the sectors with CDArchive, you add them to the .img image, and you'll need to cut out the last track using a hex editor.

_Maki wrote:

[Removed my idiotic first tries]

Two questions. How does this work with multitrack CDs? I have the error range, which goes from 329000 to 336200, but of course, with multiple BINs, this information is useless. I need the range based on which bin tracks are affected, and their range.

Secondly, for testing, I used a small range like 2000 to 3000 on the first BIN, and CDArchive did its thing, but at the end, the SECT folder was empty. Did I do something wrong?

Are you sure your disc is Ring Protech?

And why are you trying sectors 900-2100 with CDArchive if you say the error range is 329000 to 336200?

20

(8 replies, posted in General discussion)

Bump.. there was a discussion on discord about (the lack of) DPM preservation.

Jackal:
they are basically read timings that vary for each drive and read speed, so we can't just store this info in a database
I dont see any way of producing "verifiable" DPM data, unless we start rounding off the timings

F1ReB4LL:
I remember tools that draw some graph based on those values, then let you to anti-alias it
Then fix the values according to the new graph

@reentrant + sarami.. do you have any idea on how we could achieve verifiable results between different drives and speeds?

Maybe we could all buy the same game(s), then dump it with different speeds and drives, and see if there is a graph that could be generated by some standard algoritm? And also test different minimum and maximum values to to find any boundaries in the protection.

And I'm guessing that there are no known cases of someone obtaining valid DPM ranges by reverse engineering any game executables?

user7 wrote:

Are Ringprotech discs accepted in redump? I was under the impression they were not due to imperfect dumping. Ideally it's best to dat the best available dump anyway?

It was deemed too difficult for newbie dumpers
but one dumper already proved us wrong:  http://forum.redump.org/topic/18916/ibm … ngprotech/

22

(27 replies, posted in Dumps)

Let's just call it 'Ring' then until someone figures out the correct name.

23

(1,653 replies, posted in General discussion)

sarami wrote:
iR0b0t wrote:

If sector mode is not 0x00 or 0x01 or 0x02 then treat it as error.

OK, but is this error, not warning? As you know, CDmage doesn't distinguish between error and warning.

And...

CDmage B5 1.02.1 error report for image "FATAL.cue"
Track #| Sector|Sync|Header|Subheader|EDC|Intermediate|ECC P|ECC Q|Severity|Content of sector
      1| 63.502| Yes|  Yes |   No    |No |    N/A     | No  | No  |Low     |unused/empty
      1| 63.503| Yes|  Yes |   No    |No |    N/A     | No  | No  |Low     |unused/empty
Total error count:2


EdcEcc error count:
[INFO] Number of sector(s) where EDC doesn't exist: 2
[INFO] Number of sector(s) where sync(0x00 - 0x0c) is zero: 2
    Sector: 63352, 63353, 
Total errors: 0
Total warnings: 2

Are all 2352 bytes zero sectors error or warning or no error?


More...
4th sector from last of SecuROM changes the mode from 1 to 2 intentionally for the purpose of protect.
Is this error or warning?

If there's a sector inside a data track that has a different format, so non-data, different mode or other yellow book violation, then it should be regarded as an error imo for the error count, even if ECC/EDC matches.

24

(27 replies, posted in Dumps)

Do "La Prision", "Space Clash" and the other games all have the "ProRing" logo and hidden protect.pro file? I guess the protection should be called "ProRing" then.

These 2 dumps seem good enough to add. U could submit them here: http://redump.org/newdisc/PC_CD/

25

(1,653 replies, posted in General discussion)

sarami wrote:
Jackal wrote:

There are lead-out sectors inside the data track.

What evidence let it say to you?

Here are the last 4 "non-data" sectors: https://www52.zippyshare.com/v/pVD3oZwQ/file.html

I assumed they are lead-out sectors?