So still a PITA  sad

My hardware tools are the same from a few years ago. Is there something new from the software point of view?

I noticed PCE dumps have gained momentum on Redump.org. Was there some novelty in PCE world that has made possible to read the discs decently?

I already said I was wrong about not informing you about the changes.

Still, I refuse the "as is" stance, especially since we agreed to adhere to a convention. The whole point of a convention is to plane exceptions off to standardize naming. I really don't get how the "as is" and the "convention-y" stances can live together in a coherent way. Either take everything "as is" and leave for good the convention facade which got the footlights lately, or develop a convention to standardize Japanese naming too. As I said, we just can't boast about how we have a new convention for Western naming, while Japanese naming is left in poor ol' "as is" state. It's not coherent acting.

I still consider aphonetical characters completely useless, or at least not enough useful to force a double standard. About ISO vs JIS, I'll simply repeat that I don't prefer ISO chars; if we'll reach an all-JIS standard I'll be more than happy. That doesn't change the fact that the whole database is/was already half JIS and half ISO, and you know it. Standing halfway, I simply took the direction to a standard you consider wrong, instead to a standard you consider good, but I sure didn't disrupt a perfect database like it seemed from your words.

(moreover, Japanese users can install ISO support on their OS, just like we installed kanji support on ours; unless they're mentally handicapped, I don't get why you think they absolutely have to get the soup ready on the table, unlike us)

BTW, No-Intro and Redump.org cannot in any way be compared. Romsets are in their mature phase, they require simple fine-tuning, nothing that requires any mass renaming. That said, your temper is a completely different issue. I don't dispute your knowledge, but your attitude doesn't simplify things here. And I'm not talking about this particular argument between us; several other flame-y discussions have been brought up lately, discussions I had no part in.

F1ReB4LL wrote:
iR0b0t wrote:

I don't know if Blood+: Souyoku no Battle Rondo is correct,
but alt. title should be BLOOD+ ~双翼のバトル輪舞曲~

Btw, I think that all the alternative titles should have english symbols only in Shift-JIS (no ISO symbols), all the subtitles should be shown between "~" symbols and "・" should be used to split katakana words. And all the spaces should be wide (from a Shift-JIS table), not the regular ones, shown by pressing the spacebar button. Gigadeath has recently screwed _the whole_ Saturn section by removing all the "~" and "・" symbols and changing all the letters to ISO ones. Honestly, this made me even less motivated to dump the rest of my Saturn roll

http://www.rikai.com/library/kanjitable … sjis.shtml -- a table with all the Shift-JIS symbols for those, who can't type them.

The response to this is already in the PMs I sent you weeks ago. Feel free to copy/paste them here if you prefer to make the whole discussion public. I couldn't care less smile

I hope it's clear that I take absolutely NO responsibility upon myself for your "demotivation", sorry. Blame yourself if you feel demotivated. Try a support group or something like that.

Half the JP database is/was already in ISO form, and ~s and ・s are completely useless from both phonetical and semantical points of view.

Besides, I don't know if I'm the only one thinking this, but I also think you're not the best person to be the admin here, considering your temper.

Rocknroms could you check again the offset of your Ecco the Dolphin disc (http://redump.org/disc/4104/)?

Converting this image from TOSEC I get matching result with offset +2, not 0.

6

(3 replies, posted in Fixes & additions)

That's how it is. Japanese generally don't give a fuck about wrong plurals in foreign languages, they like their Engrish as it is.

The error was corrected for the Western release. And it's not the exact same game, the PAL release contains Super Monaco GP too.

7

(3 replies, posted in Fixes & additions)

I corrected Broken Sword II, thanks.

About Sega Classics, I don't thinks Arcade Collection it's a subtitle, since "Sega Classics Arcade Collection" sounds like a whole phrase to me, the same for the Japanese release.

Regarding the Limited Edition part, that's still under debate in some part of these forums. Moreover things are complicated here since in this case the game is no Limited Edition at all, it's a totally normal release labelled Limited Edition by the publisher for the coolness factor. And it doesn't appear on the title screen anyway hmm

8

(49 replies, posted in General discussion)

If there are any games released in England only, just create a (England) tag and use it when it's necessary. I don't know what's the problem with that.

For the systems I'm directly involved with, the totality of PAL English-only games are whole-Europe release. As far as my part in the database goes, (E) is de facto ALWAYS (Europe). (E) = (England) is STILL nonsense for 99% of the cases.

If some PS1/PS2 games are England only, the dumper/adder will mark it as such when the tag is available.

9

(38 replies, posted in Fixes & additions)

Missing version wrote:

Horde, The (J)

Missing version in the filename wrote:

Baku Baku Animal - Sekai Shiiku Gakari Senshuken (J) -- v1.001, 1.000 exists
Dragon Force (J) -- v1.007, 1.011 exists
Dragon Force (J) (Alt) -- v1.007, 1.011 exists
Dragon Force II - Kamisarishi Daichi ni (J) -- v1.006, 1.007 exists
DX Jinsei Game (J) -- v1.005, 1.002 exists
House of the Dead, The (J) -- 1998-02-25, 1998-05-21 exists (both are v1.003)
Kidou Senshi Gundam (J) -- v1.000, 1.300 exists
Langrisser III (J) -- v1.000, 1.010 exists
Layer Section (J) -- v1.001, 1.002 exists
Lunar - Silver Star Story (J) -- v1.05, 2.00 exists
Real Bout Garou Densetsu Special (J) -- v1.001, 1.002 exists
Sega Ages - Out Run (J) -- v1.005, 1.102 exists
Senkutsu Katsuryu Taisen - Chaos Seed (J) (Disc 1) -- v1.005, 2.000 exists
Shining Force III - Scenario 2 - Nerawareta Miko (J) -- v2.000, 1.003 exists

Wrong genre wrote:

Real Sound - Kaze no Regret (J) (Disc 1) -- should be Multimedia
Real Sound - Kaze no Regret (J) (Disc 2) -- should be Multimedia
Real Sound - Kaze no Regret (J) (Disc 3) -- should be Multimedia
Real Sound - Kaze no Regret (J) (Disc 4) -- should be Multimedia

I fixed these.

10

(49 replies, posted in General discussion)

Jackal wrote:
iR0b0t wrote:

LOL more "Region and language tags" postings tongue

Thanks to the great forum software that doesn't even allow the merging of topics.. and if you split posts it 'forgets' the other pages, even though you selected them mad

lol Not that much of a problem since it's a dead topic, the naming convention is correct as it is now, we'll simply have to adjust the entries that collide after removing serials. The whole (E) = (England) issue is nonsense and everything has already been said about it.

11

(49 replies, posted in General discussion)

iR0b0t wrote:

so probably this game was imported from France, why not to name it (France) because its the source where they taken it


p.s. whats the reason to all this topic splits?

It's a French game at heart, but it wasn't simply "imported", it was an official Sega release with a Spain-specific serial (T-13301H-06, while the French one is T-13301H-09). The 2 releases are probably identical, but the disc Retrogamer dumped has the Spanish serial, so we just can't assume they match. He found the game in Portugal, imported from Spain, but the Spain one isn't an import, it's an official release by Sega smile


http://www.satakore.com/sega-saturn-gam … UR-FR.html

12

(49 replies, posted in General discussion)

iR0b0t wrote:

LOL more "Region and language tags" postings tongue

Reply here http://forum.redump.org/topic/4778/regi … -tags-3/:P

13

(49 replies, posted in General discussion)

Yes, the naming's right as it is now.

Yes the 2 dumps will probably match. We'll discover it when we dump the edition with the French external serial (T-13301H-09)

Only thing is that we'll have to find a solution for its naming. The game is (France) AND (Spain), only released in those 2 countries. Not an interesting problem really, anyway.

14

(49 replies, posted in General discussion)

I don't get your reply. I already said that the Dragonball game should be (Europe) (Fr) or (France/Spain) (Fr). (France) is wrong but
1) if we change it to (Europe) (Fr) then we should change to (Europe) (De) all the German language games which were distributed in Germany AND Austria.
2) (France/Spain) isn't  a valid region at this moment

We require a change in the convention or in the database submit form to achieve either of the above namings. At this moment for that Dragonball Saturn game the only solution is (Spain) (Fr), which is totally correct anyway since the only disc dumped had the Spanish serial.

15

(49 replies, posted in General discussion)

As I said, I don't oppose changes that go from specific to generic, because the result might be slightly less precise but at least won't end up wrong. So that Dragonball game could be named (Europe) (Fr), despite being released only in France and Spain. Same for (Germany) (De), I accept it becoming (Europe) (De), even if the games were released only in Germany and Austria. Less precise but correct.

The inverse is not possible, the passage from generic to specific will fuck everything up. Most current (Europe) (En) entries have been released in something like 20+ European countries, despite containing only English language. The result would be half the database spreading not simply less precise info, but outright wrong info.

16

(49 replies, posted in General discussion)

r09 wrote:

There are exceptions, though... for example, here in Spain we got the French versions of the SNES Dragon Ball games, yet they are marked as (France) in the No-Intro dat. And I'm talking about official releases, not imports.

Yes, there's a DB Saturn game that's like that too, French language but releases in Spain and France. For me it could be name both (Europe) (Fr) or (France/Spain) (Fr). Every other solution is formally wrong. Current database doesn't permit (France/Spain) though.

A "better" naming scheme is not my goal, since I prefer to focus on dumps, but it becomes a problem of mine when wrong naming corrupts the info I contributed to gain. (E) has always meant (Europe), in Cowering database, in No-Intro database, in TOSEC database, in redump.org database. Nobody should act surprised to see (Europe) now that it's spelled fully instead of remaining a single letter, because that's what it was since the principle. Whoever though it was (England) was wrong, and the sooner he realizes it the better. I may sound a nazi but we're talking about fucking an entire database here.

17

(49 replies, posted in General discussion)

Why do you say that labelling a game (En) shows it was primarily an England release? English has always been the primary language of videogames, since Pong, Space Invaders was English-only for all the planet basically. They're not books where language define perfectly the region where it's meant to be read. (En) has come to mean generic PAL through multiple release on multiple systems year after year: 80% of Europe received English-only titles for the past 25 years.

18

(49 replies, posted in General discussion)

tossEAC wrote:

Here's what I mean:


EXAMPLE 1: http://redump.org/images/regions/E.png  50 Cent: Bulletproof PS2 1.00 Original, Promo   SLES-53734 
EXAMPLE 2: http://redump.org/images/regions/F.png  50 Cent: Bulletproof PS2 1.00 Original   SLES-53906 

EXAMPLE 1: 50 Cent - Bulletproof (Europe)
EXAMPLE 2: 50 Cent - Bulletproof (France)

EXAMPLE 1: English Language only
EXAMPLE 2: French Language only

What I mean is if a game is made with only (English) it should not be called (Europe), it should (England), even if a Game shop in France, Germany, or even Japan decide they want to sell that game

When a game is French only its rightfully called (France) not (Europe).

Wrong, because usually an English-only game is OFFICIALLY distributed by the publisher in every country that isn't France, Spain, Italy and Germany, while the French one is OFFICIALLY sold only in France. Retailers don't even come into play.

19

(49 replies, posted in General discussion)

I added a part to mu above post. I accept what you're saying, but not what TossEAC is, English-only PAL games are not (England) at all.

In other words we can go from specific to generic, but not from generic to specific without corrupting the original info.

20

(49 replies, posted in General discussion)

If countries which aren't markets large enough to get a translation, they OFFICIALLY get the English language release, which HAS BEEN CONSIDERED BY PUBLISHING COMPANIES THE GENERIC PAL RELEASE VALID IN ALL OF EUROPE, FOR THE LAST 25 YEARS. We're not talking about independent importing, we're talking about official distribution. Outside those few large national markets, publishers sold to retailers the English-only version.

If you talk about labelling German games (Europe) (De), then I can understand you, because at least Germany is technically is part of Europe. But naming English-only PAL releases (England) is totally wrong.

21

(49 replies, posted in General discussion)

The region naming reflects the actual, physical distribution. It has nothing to do with consistency or mixed labelling.

Once all PAL releases were English-only, because the whole PAL region were identified with English language, for simplicity and because there were simply not enough money to invest in translating in-game text. The copies of a game sold in each European country were too few to guarantee the return home of the money. Then some markets (read: 40+ million people markets) became large enough to make market specific releases profitable.

But the initial generic PAL release concept did't retire, because outside those 4-5 large markets distribution is still organized the same old way. If an English-only dump has been marketed in England, yes, but in Holland, Finland, Norway, Estonia, Greece, Serbia, Hungary, Poland etc etc etc too, why we should consider it anything else than "Europe", despite what we call consistency? The only consistency we have to adhere to is consistency to correctness, nothing else.

Multilingual games contains only 5-6 languages out of more than 20 European languages too, yet they're destined to the whole of Europe.

I don't get your example because while a German release is technically "European", but de-facto limited to Germany and Austria, given the language barrier, the English release has always been the multicultural one, valid for the whole PAL region, not tied with a specific national territory.

22

(49 replies, posted in General discussion)

There's no way in hell English-only PAL games should be treated as anything else than "Europe", since they're the generic PAL release, unless there's any proven case that that specific dump, with those specific CRCs, was released only in UK and not in those other European countries which didn't get their own translation. The publishing companies officially released English-only games in those countries, it's not that the retailers independently imported those games directly from the UK lol It was the same for us Italian, French, Spanish, German people until very few years ago.

The (E) flag has ALWAYS stood for (Europe), not English, since Cowering acne days. Who did really believe the (E) stood for (England)?

23

(49 replies, posted in General discussion)

If some dump was released in UK only, it would deserve its own flag, but then what version was released in Estonia? In Hungary? In Bulgaria? Sure those countries got an English release, and if not the UK one, what then?

I don't think any company created an English release specific to non-UK, rest-of-Europe small countries. Bulgarian kids probably got plain ol' UK release, just like we Italian, French, Spanish, German kids got back in 1991.

24

(49 replies, posted in General discussion)

Still not right because the English version was the one  exported to no-main-language countries.

Countries like Greece, Scandinavia, Holland, Central Europe east of Germany, Baltic region, etc, got the English release, which was simply considered the generic "PAL" release. It's an "European" release from every angle you want to see the issue from.

Unless recent systems have games translated in EVERY European language.

25

(49 replies, posted in General discussion)

(E) is Europe, since... well forever. And yes, we continental Europeans had to have our games in English only for most of videogame history, how is that strange? neutral Those English only titles were available in shops all around  Europe. Back when companies didn't have the habit of translating games, English was chosen as the only language simply because eveyone knew a word or two of English, not because the games were destined to England only.

Finally, since when hasn't England been a part of Europe? If you are English and think you're in a continent of its own, you might want to check the opinion of the rest of the world lol  (no offense)