776

(5 replies, posted in General discussion)

As far as I remember, they have the pre-recorded ring area as well, so the katana devkit only burns SD and HD areas and the dumping process should be the same as usual.

For what? smile

778

(3 replies, posted in Guests & account requests)

Want an account or what does the "cuts" mean? smile

One of our members told me he has a few dozens of CD plextors for sale, try to ask him, I've PMed you his email.

Wiki pages, satakore.com and most of other console-related resources usually use full-width ones and people usually copy-paste them as is.

Surely this isn't how they all really are on discs/packaging/websites/in-game?

Meh, it's hard to say whether the symbols are full or half width on the cover when there's no other text nearby to compare with smile Though, if you look at obis/spine cards, the spaces are usually quite wide (especially before the subtitles).

maybe it's time to make an additional topic to start discussing the multisession cue (or something xml-based) questions?

Jackal wrote:

- Use "REM SINGLE-DENSITY AREA" + "REM HIGH-DENSITY AREA", which can only be used by emulators and requires hardcoded LBA values. (this seems to be the only option that F1ReB4LL is willing to discuss)

I see this option as the fastest to implement _right now_ due to hardcoded LBAs and no additional attributes.

Jackal wrote:

- Come up with a new command, which would get easier approval by other developers (e.g. IsoBuster), even if in the end it would only actually be useful for Dreamcast discs. For example:
REM STARTLBA "HIGH-DENSITY AREA" 45150
REM STARTMSF "HIGH-DENSITY AREA" 10:02:00
REM AREA "HIGH DENSITY" 45150

This needs lots and lots of further discussions about how to handle the lead-in, lead-out, security ring and other portions of data (and whether to use the cue sheets at all for these, not some xml-based format instead), that additionally rises the question about how to handle the TOC and the first pregap in the -150 to -1 area. And it's going to be a very bad idea to implement these LBAs now and lead-in/lead-out/rings/whatever later. Because the next time devs may refuse to change the cue scheme once again. If they accept the simplier format above, we could try to discuss the further format expansions with them.

And don't forget the format is primarily meant for DC emus which, again, don't need those LBA commands, because the area LBAs are hardcoded to 0 and 45150, your commands can do the parsing routines more complicated and the format less attractive to support (and we want it to be supported by as many emus as possible, including MAME - good luck explaining them how to process your proposed LBA commands and do all the addressing properly).

The format _right now_ should be as easy as possble, the complicated parts need to be well discussed before adding.

And once again, just in case I wasn't clear enough: adding those LBA commands to GD cues only is absolutely pointless, because they are hardcoded and cannot be changed; adding them to all the cues for multisession (and maybe other) needs needs (lol) to be better discussed and documented.

The logic is to map all the data without the holes, I've offered a single exception and you've turned this single exception into a completely different cuesheet logic.

Jackal wrote:

This would require coders to implement 2 commands exclusive to dreamcast discs, one with a prefixed start LBA of 0, and the other with 45150.

Because that's the only existant case of a disc with isolated sessions, there's no other similar case. For Saturn rings you need to implement the REM LEAD-OUT command to describe the exact amount of sectors before the ring, for multisession discs you need REM LEAD-OUT for the first session with the amount of lead-out sectors and REM LEAD-IN for the amount of lead-in sectors of the 2nd session, you don't need any direct LBA addressing, that's way away from cuesheets paradigm. We need to develop a custom format for direct LBA addressing if you want it that much.

No global commands are needed right now. These commands will be only useable when and if we decide to dump lead-outs/lead-ins (which are standard in 99,99999999% of cases and could be generated with REM LEAD-IN/REM LEAD-OUT commands instead, similar to PREGAP/POSTGAP). You're trying to alter the whole cuesheet logic and don't even understand that, nobody will bother with such a complicated format. If you have nothing to do - make a new XML-based cuesheet alternative instead. We need a simple cue extension right now (or 2xcues with no extensions at all), not the ability to put any data at any position leaving the huge undescribed holes between the data portions.

If there's no agreement on the single cue format, do the 2xcues with no additional tags. Easy.

So what? Your "START LBA"/"START MSF" commands won't teach the mounting tools to do that, you need to tell the devs to code the support. So they can simply write the code to put the "REM HIGH-DENSITY AREA" data at 45150. You're overcomplicating things.

SINGLE-DENSITY AREA always starts at 0, HIGH-DENSITY AREA always starts at 45150, additional commands aren't needed here. These are to be discussed later for the multisessional discs (though, even they should have REM LEAD-OUT and REM LEAD-IN generating commands, not that LBA thing).

I think Shift-JIS with its wide symbols is a standard for Japanese typing.

You need more commands, like REM LEAD-IN and REM LEAD-OUT to properly generate or insert the needed amount of sectors between the sessions/areas. And for describing the full GD structure, you would also need a REM MIRROR AREA command.

Or, if those areas are more or less standard (I haven't investigated too far), something like REM SECURITY AREA TYPE 1/REM SECURITY AREA TYPE 2 could be enough (same for the Saturn rings).

Jackal wrote:
F1ReB4LL wrote:

I've already mentioned such a solution. The problem is that such a cue is only "correct" for isobuster, other tools will "see" this track 9+ minutes longer than it should be.

Actually, Track03 is shown with the correct size and starting address.

The only problem is that the Track02 end address aligns with Track03, but when you browse outside of the data range, it gives read errors.

I don't think this is a problem, it's merely a restriction of the .cue standard.

The problem is that you're adding the non-existant pregap that changes the track layout. From the preservation POV it's as bad as our misaligned gdis, just in the cue form.
I'd recommend to try to discuss the new format with IsoBuster guys instead, maybe they could implement our cues.

You still need the PREGAP line, even with separate cue's, because otherwise you would be pointing Track03 to start at sector 150 instead of 45.150.

Track03 image doesn't contain the pregap, so you aren't pointing at anything, it's upto the virtual drive/dc emulator/isobuster/whatever else to process the cue properly according to the REM commands and align the data properly. You don't add any pregaps to the normal data-only images, even if they have a pregap at the -150 to -1 area, why should you add it to the HD area?

So, I think this solution still stands?

Demolition Racer - No Exit (USA).cue wrote:

REM SINGLE-DENSITY AREA
FILE "Demolition Racer - No Exit (USA) (Track 1).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 01 MODE1/2352
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "Demolition Racer - No Exit (USA) (Track 2).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
REM HIGH-DENSITY AREA
FILE "Demolition Racer - No Exit (USA) (Track 3).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 03 MODE1/2352
    PREGAP 09:42:68
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "Demolition Racer - No Exit (USA) (Track 4).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Demolition Racer - No Exit (USA) (Track 5).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 05 MODE1/2352
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:03:00

Or tell us what the benefit would be of having 2 .cue's, like this?

Demolition Racer - No Exit (USA) (LD).cue wrote:

REM SINGLE-DENSITY AREA
FILE "Demolition Racer - No Exit (USA) (Track 1).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 01 MODE1/2352
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "Demolition Racer - No Exit (USA) (Track 2).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00

Demolition Racer - No Exit (USA) (HD).cue wrote:

REM HIGH-DENSITY AREA
FILE "Demolition Racer - No Exit (USA) (Track 3).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 03 MODE1/2352
    PREGAP 10:02:00
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "Demolition Racer - No Exit (USA) (Track 4).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Demolition Racer - No Exit (USA) (Track 5).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 05 MODE1/2352
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:03:00

I don't like that PREGAP thing. Other than that, both variants are fine. The 2xcues variant's benefits: it doesn't need any new REM commands; it allows to load LD and HD areas separately (technically, it shouldn't be loaded as a single image)

I've already mentioned such a solution. The problem is that such a cue is only "correct" for isobuster, other tools will "see" this track 9+ minutes longer than it should be, so it's not a good solution at all. The only proper way without implementing new commands would be to put everything into a single image.

REM SESSION 01 and REM SESSION 02 are also wrong, these commands generate a multisessional disc TOC, while GDs aren't multisessional, those are 2 separate images written on the same media (or 3, if to count the security ring area).

The GD image should NOT be seen as a single image with all the tracks at a time, that's why I've offered to do separate cues, so you could load them independently, just like a real thing. You either load and work with the LD area with 2 tracks or with the HD area with the track 3 and beyond (if any), not both.

HD Area always starts with Track 3 and it is labeled as Track 3 in the subchannels. The areas are isolated, but they share the track numbering.

Someone should try to contact Daemon Tools guys for the possible support of such cues.

It's not always easily understandable, whether to move the [ADDED] ones or if they are needed for some future discussions. You need to open each topic and carefully read every post to understand. Theoretically, it could be optimized somehow, like, some 'garbage collector' that moves all the [ADDED] once a week. And maybe some script that removes the [ADDED] tag if someone has posted something into the topic afterwards.

Earlier SEGA docs call them "Single-Density" and "Double-Density" areas, more recent revisions call them "Single-Density" and "High-Density". No "Low-Density" anywhere.

A possible single-cue file alternative:

REM SINGLE-DENSITY AREA
FILE "Official Sega Dreamcast Magazine Vol. 11 - February 2001 (USA) (Track 1).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 01 MODE1/2352
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "Official Sega Dreamcast Magazine Vol. 11 - February 2001 (USA) (Track 2).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
REM HIGH-DENSITY AREA
FILE "Official Sega Dreamcast Magazine Vol. 11 - February 2001 (USA) (Track 3).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 01 MODE1/2352
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "Official Sega Dreamcast Magazine Vol. 11 - February 2001 (USA) (Track 4).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Official Sega Dreamcast Magazine Vol. 11 - February 2001 (USA) (Track 5).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 03 MODE1/2352
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:03:00

Japanese PSX games with Japanese internal serial numbers that were later released in Asia are (Japan, Asia).
Asian PSX games with Asian internal serial numbers that were later released in Japan are (Asia, Japan).

The pairs you've mentioned are probably for the similar cases.

799

(7 replies, posted in General discussion)

I'm ok with him.

Have you tried swapping and dumping with IsoBuster? Maybe it doesn't have any security areas at all?