1 Topic by Anamon (edited by Anamon 2022-02-10 23:26:08)

  • Registered: 2021-03-07
  • Posts: 4

Hi everyone,

I found a PX-712UF for cheap this week, and hoped that it would finally allow me to start contributing. The drive worked fine when I initially tested it after getting it, but after doing the v1.09 firmware update requested by DIC, it now seems to no longer read CDs, only DVDs.

Here's the full story:

When I first set up the drive (USB connection, Windows 10 machine) I tested it with a handful of CD-ROMs and DVD-ROMs I had lying around. The drive read all of them flawlessly. I then tried to do my first dump with DIC, but the tool complained that it wouldn't dump from the drive since it had the v1.02 firmware installed, and I should update it to the latest version 1.09.

I downloaded the firmware updater from the link on the Wiki, and the update seemed to go smoothly. However, when I inserted the CD I tried dumping again, the drive wouldn't recognise it anymore. It audibly tried detecting the disc four times, before going into the "two orange LED flashes" error mode. I tried the other CDs that worked fine before the firmware upgrade, and none of them were recognised anymore either. I then tried the DVDs again – and they all still read flawlessly. The drive immediately detects them, seems to read them at full speed, and I can even dump them with DIC.

Since the drive sucessfully read CDs on every try before the firmware upgrade, and not a single time anymore after it, I figured it had to do with the firmware. I downgraded it back to v1.02 to try (which would defeat the purpose of wanting to use the drive for dumping, but whatever). But still: I can't get it to recognise a single CD-ROM anymore. DVDs always work fine.



What could be the problem here? Of course I've read the notes about the 712's reputation of having its lasers die young, but I'm a bit skeptical about this being the problem given how the success rate went from 100% to 0% the second I upgraded the firmware, and the fact that it doesn't seem to have any problems with DVDs whatsoever (or does the 712 have separate lasers?). Could I have semi-bricked the drive when flashing the firmware? Could it just need a lens cleaning? Or are these symptoms actually consistent with the laser dying?
The guy who sold the drive to me asked me about what system I plan to connect it to – he said that the drive was very unreliable for him whenever he tried using it on a Windows 8 or 10 machine, but that he managed to back up all of his old discs flawlessly once he connected it to an old XP computer. My intuition tells me that this couldn't possibly be it, and that the failure happens before anything the Windows driver could influence gets involved. But maybe I'm wrong?

I'd appreciate any helpful experiences or knowledge you might have! Thanks smile

2 Reply by Larsenv (edited by Larsenv 2022-02-10 23:39:48)

  • From: Texas
  • Registered: 2018-04-15
  • Posts: 271

Does the drive try to spin up the disc 3 times, then flash amber? If so, yeah, that's a sign of the laser dying, which sucks... This is why I don't trust that model at all, but I don't know why the firmware has to do with it (could it be a coincidence)

Someone here mentioned they had a similar drive die after it was running overnight. The Plextor 708 and 712 really suck in my opinion because of this laser problem.

Or, you could get a replacement Sanyo SF-DB10 laser on AliXpress. Not sure if anyone's tried it with the Plextors yet, but it should work.

Otherwise, honestly, since Plextors are scarce, I recommend just getting an LG WH16NS40 or ASUS BW-16D1HT. They work great and the former is just $60.

You can join the Discord if you want to communicate with the community better: https://discord.gg/AHTfxQV

My Drives: Plextor PX-W5224TA (white, with Syba 5.25" HDD enclosure), ASUS BW-16D1HT (with OWC Mercury Pro enclosure), Plextor Premium-U, Plextor PX-760A (with ByteCC enclosure), Lite-On LH-20A1HX, Kreon TS-H352C, Plextor PX-891SAF, Wii, Wii U

Other Hardware: JVC HR-XVC27U (DVD/VHS VCR), Sony CFD-S50 (CD/Cassette/Radio Boombox), Canon LiDE110 (Scanner)

3 Reply by Anamon (edited by Anamon 2022-02-10 23:53:18)

  • Registered: 2021-03-07
  • Posts: 4

Thanks for the reply!

Yes, it does 4 batches of a sequence of 4 "noises" before stopping the drive and flashing amber.

It's certainly possible that it's a coincidence it happened right at the time of the firmware upgrade. Just my mind is saying, what are the odds of a drive this old dying 15 minutes after I bring it home big_smile I considered the possibility that the drive wouldn't work or I would fail to create proper dumps with it, but not with it teasing me by working for just long enough to get my hopes up!

I do have a BH16NS55 which, if I understand the compatibility list correctly, should also work once flashed with the BW-16D1HT firmware. But I was hesitant to try that, since I use the drive for other work as well. I did toy with the idea of getting a second one since they're for sale here everywhere, but that would be around $75, and having to add a second internal drive, using up my last 5.25" bay, and still not having a guarantee it will work. That was a bit too much expense, effort and risk for me "just" for doing dumps. Getting a PX-712UF for $10 seemed like a great low-risk option.

I might try the laser replacement thing, if just for kicks. Redump is really the only reason I got this drive, so if I'm not going to be able to do dumps with it, it's just going to take up space.

  • Registered: 2015-02-24
  • Posts: 101

Anamon wrote:

I might try the laser replacement thing, if just for kicks. Redump is really the only reason I got this drive, so if I'm not going to be able to do dumps with it, it's just going to take up space.

It looks like the laser in the PX-712 was used in various drives from NEC (and possibly Lite-On as well). If you've got any other drives kicking around, you might check the PDFs linked from another thread (http://forum.redump.org/topic/42360/hel … -a-px755a/) to see if any of those models have the same / compatible OPU.

Regarding cross-flashing an LG / ASUS drive, I have a couple notes that may or may not be helpful. One, it seems like the cross-flashing process is pretty reliable at this point, assuming you verify that the drive you have has the proper model / SVC code / manufacturing date. The old-style cross-flashing involved flashing from DOS or using a hacked LG / ASUS flasher, but, most recently, I've cross-flashed a couple drives using a frontend to the flasher that comes included with MakeMKV, and I've yet to have any issues with it. It's certainly not without risk, though. If something happens and the drive calibration data gets wiped, you might be out of luck. Two, even a cross-flashed LG / ASUS probably won't be able to dump all the discs the Plextor would be able to if it's made working again. I've been using my BW-16D1HT for most CDs that don't have audio tracks (to avoid wearing out the Plextor), and, every once in a while, I still have to use the Plextor for such discs. The BW-16D1HT has to use a trick to read the lead-out sectors from the drive cache, but certain discs exhibit an issue where the lead-out sector isn't present in the cache, and DiscImageCreator is unable to dump such discs.

So, even if you cross-flash your LG, you may find you need a Plextor for some discs. Thus, even if you opt to cross-flash the LG drive for dumping, I think you'd be wise to be on the lookout for replacement parts / a replacement drive for the Plextor.

  • Registered: 2021-03-07
  • Posts: 4

I see – limited options, here.

Since the Plextor was a Hail Mary purchase anyway, so to say, I might just try tinkering with it a little out of curiosity. The guy I got it from would've trashed it if he hadn't found a seller, and I only got it for dumping, meaning that it would probably await the same fate if I can't use it for that. So, might as well open the sucker up and see if I can turn that $10 purchase into something I can get something worthwhile out of.

I think at first I'll try to see if I can clean the lens a little – I doubt that this is the problem, given it still reads DVDs, and from my understanding, DVDs are more sensitive to that than CDs (which is also what makes me wonder exactly how these lasers are dying, as in my case, that it can completely bork CD reading while leaving DVD reading ability seemingly undiminished).

Unfortunately I don't have any spare drives lying around, and I'd be hesitant to buy extra old drives at auction, because I assume they all had their years of use, and if they contain the same laser assembly, they'll have had the same reliability problems.

Online, I found only one vendor selling SF-DB10s. They claim they're original, but everything about the listing tells me they're probably not. But it's not like I have anything to lose, right? If I manage to physically replace the thing, I'll have at least practiced my repair skills a little. If the drive then doesn't work, it's not any less useful to me than it is right now. And if I do manage, I guess I'll have found a way to keep the drive in working order for the forseeable future (or however long I will be able to procure more SF-DB10s).

  • Registered: 2019-04-12
  • Posts: 107

If you are going to dump CDs you should invest in a CD-only plextor. They have the best read rates. For DVDs, there is zero reason to use a plextor, any dvd drive can dump those discs properly. DVD PX models are trash amd the laser is known for wearing out. If you plan on dumping CDs they should not be recommended ever, yet people still preach buying 716 or 760 drives for dumping cds. No, full stop.

  • Registered: 2009-03-14
  • Posts: 2,621

708s and 716s are somewhat common. i dont really care about dump speed. they're fine.

All my posts and submission data are released into Public Domain / CC0.
  • Registered: 2021-03-07
  • Posts: 4

Agent47 wrote:

If you are going to dump CDs you should invest in a CD-only plextor. They have the best read rates. For DVDs, there is zero reason to use a plextor, any dvd drive can dump those discs properly. DVD PX models are trash amd the laser is known for wearing out. If you plan on dumping CDs they should not be recommended ever, yet people still preach buying 716 or 760 drives for dumping cds. No, full stop.

I don't feel like I've been duped, the warnings about dead lasers on the compatibility list are very direct big_smile it was a purchase of opportunity, since I occasionally look for Plextor listings, and I know that in the rare instance that one does show up in the area, it's a minimum of $150. I assume people who kept those drives around are aware of how sought-after they are. So when one from the "maybe you'll get lucky" list showed up for 10 bucks, I took my chances.

Personally I wouldn't pay three digits for a "good" CD-only Plextor – when dumping for my own archive, I have less strict standards, and so far I never had a disc that I couldn't create a proper, functional copy with using my BH16NS55. But I do like the Redump project, and the idea of being able to contribute to it, so I thought if a tenner might give me the chance to, why not try.

If I didn't see tinkering with the drive as an interesting and educative thing in itself, I would probably decide differently, but for now I like the idea of: if I can keep getting replacement lasers, and manage to swap them out, it might be worth a try even if they're cheap knockoffs that give out quickly themselves and I have to open the drive up once a year. roll

  • Registered: 2007-12-04
  • Posts: 445

Agent47 wrote:

If you are going to dump CDs you should invest in a CD-only plextor. They have the best read rates. For DVDs, there is zero reason to use a plextor, any dvd drive can dump those discs properly. DVD PX models are trash amd the laser is known for wearing out. If you plan on dumping CDs they should not be recommended ever, yet people still preach buying 716 or 760 drives for dumping cds. No, full stop.

DIC does not allow CD-only plextors to dump multisession CDs. A Plextor DVD drive is required.

  • Registered: 2015-02-24
  • Posts: 101

Agent47 wrote:

If you are going to dump CDs you should invest in a CD-only plextor. They have the best read rates. For DVDs, there is zero reason to use a plextor, any dvd drive can dump those discs properly. DVD PX models are trash amd the laser is known for wearing out. If you plan on dumping CDs they should not be recommended ever, yet people still preach buying 716 or 760 drives for dumping cds. No, full stop.

I agree that the lifetime of the CD-based units seems to be probably better on average. In fact, CD-based Plextors feel damn-near indestructible. However, CD-based units also have the issue of having absolutely awful error correction when reading data discs. I recall the Premium was tied for last place in ability to do error correction on data CDs back when CDRinfo.pl tested it. (I believe it was tied for last with another Plextor drive.)

I haven't seen a comparison with error correction on Plextor DVD drives, but, anecdotally, it seems like my PX-760A can read poor condition discs better than my Premium can. The cross-flashed LG can read damaged discs a whole lot better than either one, though, but it has other drawbacks.

In short, all the drives suck for different reasons, basically.

  • Registered: 2021-03-09
  • Posts: 249

I come back to the topic. I have a similar problem. My drive (Plextor PX-760A) is not reading some discs. The problem is strange though, because it can read some CDs but cannot read some CDs. Likewise with DVD. It can read some DVDs and not others. It sometimes reads some CDs, but the dump quality is very poor. Is it also a laser failure in my case? I bought it on the Allegro in used condition. I realize that the Plextor 700 series have poor lasers and I would prefer to buy an LG or Asus drive, but the problem is that I have a lot of multisession discs in my collection that can only be dumped in DIC on the Plextor 700 series, and the drives from this series on USB are even heavier to buy, I also have Audio CDs with game music in my collection and when I dumped them on the previous drive (Optiarc), my dumps were rejected because they were not made on Plextor. Can I repair the drive at home (for example, clean the laser or something)?