1 Topic by Eidolon (edited by Eidolon 2008-02-18 15:50:57)

  • Registered: 2008-01-15
  • Posts: 50

Ok I'm not panicking, it's about the Sega CD game "Panic!" (US version).

Ripping its data track I ran into a problem.

Analysing the disc layout with EAC, a track 2 pregap of 1:74 is reported.

So, according to the redump guide, I remove 149 raw sectors from the end of track 1 (resulting image version 1 = 108158 raw sectors)

But when I analyze the resulting image with CDmage, an error is reported in the very last raw sector (severity "low" though).

This doesn't happen if I "play dumb" and remove 150 raw sectors as if there was a pregap of 2:00 (resulting image version 2 = 108157 sectors).

What are your thoughts on this? Obviously I don't want to keep or submit a corrupted image.

Should I
1) keep and submit image version 1
2) keep and submit image version 2
3) repair image version 1 with CDmage, then keep and submit it

UPDATE
Both IsoBuster and CDRWIN report a track 1 length of 108307 raw sectors. So, assuming the 1:74 pregap as the guiding principle, the logical conclusion would be to keep image version 1 (108158 + 149 sectors attached to next audio track = 108307 sectors). However, that would mean to keep a corrupted track 1 image...

  • Jackal
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Hi, I think 3 is the logical option, because the last sector got corrupted and should be repaired..

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Vigi wrote:

Hi, I think 3 is the logical option, because the last sector got corrupted and should be repaired..

This error occurs only in PSX images without EDC in form 2 sectors. My opinion is that 2nd track pregap is 2:00 (so 150 sectors should be cut off from the data track and 1 extra sector should be added to the beginning of track 2 (other 149 have already been detected by EAC).

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  • Jackal
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Dremora wrote:
Vigi wrote:

Hi, I think 3 is the logical option, because the last sector got corrupted and should be repaired..

This error occurs only in PSX images without EDC in form 2 sectors. My opinion is that 2nd track pregap is 2:00 (so 150 sectors should be cut off from the data track and 1 extra sector should be added to the beginning of track 2 (other 149 have already been detected by EAC).

I think I also had this error with IBM discs.. it just depends on which drive you're using.. maybe Eidolon can post the contents of the last sector (unfixed) so we can see if it's the scrambled data that indicates the write offset.. (if it is then the pregap is indeed 2:00)

  • From: London, UK
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Vigi wrote:

I think I also had this error with IBM discs.. it just depends on which drive you're using.

Yes, I was wrong here.

Btw, pregap begins in the first sector with unscrambled data, so it's another way to detect it's size.

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  • Registered: 2008-01-15
  • Posts: 50

of image version 1, here is the last sector, unfixed:

LBA :108157

0000 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 24 04 07 01   ............$...
0010 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0020 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0030 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0040 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0050 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0060 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0070 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0080 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0090 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
00A0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
00B0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
00C0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
00D0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
00E0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
00F0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0100 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0110 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0120 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0130 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0140 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0150 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0160 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0170 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0180 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0190 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
01A0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
01B0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
01C0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
01D0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
01E0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
01F0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0200 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0210 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0220 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0230 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0240 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0250 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0260 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0270 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0280 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0290 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
02A0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
02B0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
02C0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
02D0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
02E0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
02F0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0300 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0310 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0320 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0330 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0340 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0350 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0360 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0370 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0380 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0390 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
03A0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
03B0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
03C0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
03D0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
03E0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
03F0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0400 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0410 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0420 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0430 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0440 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0450 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0460 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0470 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0480 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0490 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
04A0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
04B0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
04C0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
04D0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
04E0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
04F0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0500 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0510 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0520 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0530 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0540 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0550 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0560 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0570 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0580 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0590 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
05A0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
05B0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
05C0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
05D0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
05E0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
05F0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0600 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0610 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0620 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0630 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0640 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0650 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0660 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0670 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0680 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0690 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
06A0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
06B0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
06C0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
06D0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
06E0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
06F0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0700 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0710 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0720 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0730 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0740 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0750 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0760 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0770 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0780 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0790 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
07A0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
07B0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
07C0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
07D0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
07E0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
07F0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0800 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0810 : 44 6C DF 17 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 38 F3 F1 F5   Dl..........8...
0820 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0830 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0840 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0850 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0860 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 CC B4  7C 39 00 00 00 00 00 00   ........|9......
0870 : 00 00 1C F7 F6 F4 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0880 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0890 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
08A0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
08B0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 88 D8 A3 2E   ................
08C0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  E6 82 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
08D0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 02 6A   ...............j
08E0 : 51 6D FD BC AE BB 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   Qm..............
08F0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 26 65  5C 40 9C A7 C2 86 00 00   ......&e\@......
0900 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   ................
0910 : 00 00 DD 7D 69 38 92 26  26 63 00 00 00 00 00 00   ...}i8.&&c......
0920 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 D7 90 92 47 87 51   .............G.Q
  • Jackal
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Yeah that's error output, you should just repair it with cdmage.

8 Reply by Eidolon (edited by Eidolon 2008-02-19 19:23:44)

  • Registered: 2008-01-15
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Vigi wrote:

Yeah that's error output, you should just repair it with cdmage.

But in one of the other discussions, Dremora mentioned:

Dremora wrote:

We are not forgetting anything - some discs have mastering EDC/ECC errors which shouldn't be fixed (either accidental or intentionally made by the developers). Not only PSX, but even some Sega CD discs have these errors, so by ripping data tracks in cooked mode or fixing them with CDmage you'll lose data.

So, if I used CDMage to fix the last sector (my option 3), the dump would not be like the original.

- How can I determine if the faulty EDC/ECC data is intentional, or if it happens because of a bad disc?
- How can I determine if I should rely on EAC's pregap detection or not?

  • Jackal
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That's the thing.. the data isn't like that on the disc (at least not the last data sector, before entering audio).. it's a drive error.. once you repair it with cdmage it will be like on the cd..

10 Reply by pepsidrinker (edited by pepsidrinker 2008-02-19 20:05:59)

  • Registered: 2007-06-04
  • Posts: 694

I think it's supposed to be a 2 second gap, that's how I determined NFL GameDay had 4 second pregaps because it gave 300/299 errors in cdmage before resize and 150/149 after, Gigadeath said this...

A consideration, after Pepsidrinker dumps is tracks, if they match my Japanese disc but only with gaps shifted 1.74->2.00, it would be pretty clear that all these 1.74 gaps are only misjudgments from dumping programs caused by un-standard mastering.

It's not a case that Japanese discs with "normal" write offset (with normal I mean <100) report 2.00 gaps too, just like USA discs. See F1 Circus CD, Game no Kandume, Vay. When the offset becomes huge, then the dumping programs go mad and 1.74 gaps start appearing. Even official system documentation says minimum gap size for MegaCD is 2 seconds!

Maybe not tomorrow, but in the near future we should change all of them to 2 seconds, hopefully there will be an automatized way to do the process.

So, yeah I think it's 2 sec and should be fixed as such.

  • From: Macondo
  • Registered: 2007-08-21
  • Posts: 966

pepsidrinker wrote:

So, yeah I think it's 2 sec and should be fixed as such.

it's unlikely. the edc/ecc data is valid but sector is missing sync. if IsoBuster didn't report any errors while dumping, this should be what drive gave. it would be a strange behavior for a drive to add header/edc/ecc, i think. but it would become more clear when dumped on 2 drives.

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