• Registered: 2013-09-02
  • Posts: 137

It recently came to my attention that several experienced dumpers feel EAC is an *obsolete* tool for dumping audio tracks, and that it should no longer be used as the primary tool for dumping audio tracks. Furthermore, they expressed that both DiscImageCreator and PerfectRip were a much more suitable tool for audio track dumping (vs. EAC) because they both delivered more accurate and consistent results. While EAC may still have some value as an alternate validation tool, what I am hearing is that EAC is no longer the correct tool to be using for dumping audio tracks and that more suitable tools are available. I also gathered that this has been the case for some time, and that the practice of using EAC is rather antiquated.

Now if what I just shared is even *partially* accurate...then it underscores a fact that redump's WIKI documentation is severely outdated and needs to be better maintained by its experienced users.

A technical community (like redump) depends upon great WIKI documentation, and great WIKI documentation is always at its best when it is properly maintained by its experienced users in the community. The upside to providing quality WIKI documentation is that it always leads to good things:

  • Fewer mistakes

  • Better questions

  • Improved processes

  • Reduced learning curve for new users

  • Less PMs asking for help

  • And...an increase in quality dumps!

In short: it's a win-win for a everyone. You don't have to be Shakespeare to write good documentation. Even if you're re English isn't very strong, there will always be someone who can and will attempt to improve it (that's the beauty of the WIKI). So if you can lend a hand and help update the WIKI...then it would be highly beneficial to everyone in the long-run. I would advise beginning by reviewing the main guides first (e.g. Getting Started and Main CD Dumping Guide) and then expanding from there.

One last thing. The forums are a great place for discussing new techniques and experimenting with alternative processes and solutions...but at the end of the day the WIKI is where the final documentation belongs. It should *NOT* reside exclusively on the forums. Links to forum discussions are completely acceptable as long as any decisions and/or process changes are mirrored on the WIKI. Don't rely on the forum's search feature for looking up documentation, since a new user will never think to do this when a WIKI exists. wink

CONCLUSION
We have a good start to the WIKI...it just needs to be better maintained. smile I will do my part to help improve the overall formatting and general infrastructure, but I need the experienced dumpers to make sure that the existing guides are current and up-to-date with the correct tools, links, step-by-step directions, pictures, forum links, and anything else that needs to be included. A well-written WIKI should be able to answer 80% of the questions without further modification. The remaining 20% should account for the "unique scenarios" which can be added as a footnote to help further close the gap to achieve 90-95% support resolution.

If redump's goal is indeed to dump every known game disc twice (verified)...then you'll want to take the time and get this step right. Otherwise, I don't think it would be to unreasonable to suggest that this project could take 20-30 years longer than it needs to... wink

Cheers!
-MrTikki-

P.S. My short-term motive for pointing this out is to reduce the amount of Q&A PMs that I've been sending to everyone about various dumping techniques (you know who you are--and I appreciate your help!). My long-term motive is to improve the documentation standards around here so that newcomers can jump right into dumping without having to hit every branch of the tree when they start to fall down the rabbit hole. big_smile

ATAPI iHBS212 2 HL05 (+6) | LG BH16NS40 (+6) | Plextor PX-W4824TA (+98) | Plextor PX-708A (+30)

2 Reply by pablogm123 (edited by pablogm123 2013-09-20 18:11:55)

  • From: Sevilla - España
  • Registered: 2011-05-16
  • Posts: 1,006

In my opinion, yes, EAC is a superseded and an obsolete tool:

-Many problems detecting proper pregaps, specially when during track transition a MCN/ISRC frame appears (assumes that this frame belongs to next track).

-Cannot detect the pregap for one data track + one audio track discs.

-When dumping a one data track + n audio tracks, the pregap of first audio track is generated, not read from the actual disc. On top of that, if combined offset is negative it doesn't overread into the pregap (actually track 2, index 0) to rescue the first audio samples.

-Its reread strategy (specially when using a drive which caches audio and doesn't report C2 errors) is somewhat stressful for the drive.

-Sometimes fails to detect constant errors.

-Its "secure" mode with C2 pointers enabled is a joke. Why? Because C2 pointers are used only on initial read (in order to not to reread everything twice), but doesn't take into account the C2 pointers when performing rereads. Those C2 pointers used during rereads would detect possible constant errors.

-Absolutely unsuitable to dump discs with strange layouts, such as PC Engine discs.

---------------

The near definitive way to dump discs would be the CDtoIMG-D8 dump processed with certain tools. And as quick verification another tool as PerfectRip or (better) discimagecreator. I hope that sarami can implement a correct and proper use of C2 pointers (reading these in the actual dumping process, or even using a smart reread strategy with C2 pointers taken into account, like the dBpoweramp CD Ripper does), because that program is very good and can even dump the PC discs (with scrambled sectors in the first audio track pregap) correctly, but its C2 mode is more or less useless, as F1ReB4LL said:
http://forum.redump.org/post/44775/#p44775
http://forum.redump.org/post/44865/#p44865

---------------

An example of constant error NOT detected by "secure" mode of EAC. Track 11 is a bad dump (I rechecked it later, even this very same drive using PF dumps the correct track). According to EAC, everything was perfect, matching CRCs at Test/Read passes and Track quality 100.0 %...

Exact Audio Copy V1.0 beta 3 from 29. August 2011

EAC extraction logfile from 3. December 2011, 13:12

Rare K.I Team / Killer Cuts

Used drive  : PIONEER DVD-RW  DVR-110   Adapter: 3  ID: 0

Read mode               : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache      : No
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction                      : 48
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : Yes
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling                                : Appended to next track

Used output format : Conversor PCM de Microsoft
Sample format      : 44,100 KHz; 16 bit; Estéreo


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  3:45.42 |         0    |    16916   
        2  |  3:45.42 |  3:58.50 |     16917    |    34816   
        3  |  7:44.17 |  3:56.30 |     34817    |    52546   
        4  | 11:40.47 |  3:23.10 |     52547    |    67781   
        5  | 15:03.57 |  3:04.48 |     67782    |    81629   
        6  | 18:08.30 |  3:55.45 |     81630    |    99299   
        7  | 22:04.00 |  3:16.00 |     99300    |   113999   
        8  | 25:20.00 |  4:53.52 |    114000    |   136026   
        9  | 30:13.52 |  1:36.23 |    136027    |   143249   
       10  | 31:50.00 |  2:11.12 |    143250    |   153086   
       11  | 34:01.12 |  1:50.63 |    153087    |   161399   
       12  | 35:52.00 |  3:09.22 |    161400    |   175596   
       13  | 39:01.22 |  3:00.73 |    175597    |   189169   
       14  | 42:02.20 |  2:11.30 |    189170    |   199024   
       15  | 44:13.50 |  2:33.25 |    199025    |   210524   
       16  | 46:47.00 |  0:04.00 |    210525    |   210824   
       17  | 46:51.00 |  0:04.00 |    210825    |   211124   
       18  | 46:55.00 |  0:04.00 |    211125    |   211424   
       19  | 46:59.00 |  0:04.00 |    211425    |   211724   
       20  | 47:03.00 |  0:04.00 |    211725    |   212024   
       21  | 47:07.00 |  0:04.00 |    212025    |   212324   
       22  | 47:11.00 |  0:04.00 |    212325    |   212624   
       23  | 47:15.00 |  0:04.00 |    212625    |   212924   
       24  | 47:19.00 |  0:04.00 |    212925    |   213224   
       25  | 47:23.00 |  0:04.00 |    213225    |   213524   
       26  | 47:27.00 |  0:04.00 |    213525    |   213824   
       27  | 47:31.00 |  0:04.00 |    213825    |   214124   
       28  | 47:35.00 |  0:04.00 |    214125    |   214424   
       29  | 47:39.00 |  0:05.52 |    214425    |   214851   
       30  | 47:44.52 |  0:40.11 |    214852    |   217862   


Track  1

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\01- Killer Cuts OST - K. I. Feeling.bin

     Pre-gap length  0:00:02.00

     Peak level 92.7 %
     Extraction speed 4.7 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC B8696622
     Copy CRC B8696622
     Copy OK

Track  2

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\02- Killer Cuts OST - The Way U Move.bin

     Peak level 96.5 %
     Extraction speed 5.3 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC D635BA47
     Copy CRC D635BA47
     Copy OK

Track  3

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\03- Killer Cuts OST - Controlling Transmission.bin

     Peak level 93.7 %
     Extraction speed 5.8 X
     Track quality 99.9 %
     Test CRC AED99BC5
     Copy CRC AED99BC5
     Copy OK

Track  4

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\04- Killer Cuts OST - Oh Yeah.bin

     Peak level 91.1 %
     Extraction speed 6.2 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 4F06E713
     Copy CRC 4F06E713
     Copy OK

Track  5

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\05- Killer Cuts OST - It's A Jungle.bin

     Peak level 98.4 %
     Extraction speed 6.5 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 959FEF03
     Copy CRC 959FEF03
     Copy OK

Track  6

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\06- Killer Cuts OST - Do It Now!.bin

     Peak level 88.2 %
     Extraction speed 6.8 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC F71345DB
     Copy CRC F71345DB
     Copy OK

Track  7

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\07- Killer Cuts OST - Full-Bore.bin

     Peak level 96.4 %
     Extraction speed 7.2 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC EA1808B6
     Copy CRC EA1808B6
     Copy OK

Track  8

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\08- Killer Cuts OST - The Instinct.bin

     Peak level 99.1 %
     Extraction speed 7.5 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC B58FF6E8
     Copy CRC B58FF6E8
     Copy OK

Track  9

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\09- Killer Cuts OST - Yo Check This Out!.bin

     Peak level 83.5 %
     Extraction speed 7.8 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 1552CACA
     Copy CRC 1552CACA
     Copy OK

Track 10

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\10- Killer Cuts OST - Freeze.bin

     Peak level 85.4 %
     Extraction speed 7.9 X
     Track quality 99.9 %
     Test CRC E7EDB860
     Copy CRC E7EDB860
     Copy OK

Track 11

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\11- Killer Cuts OST - Trailblazer.bin

     Peak level 88.2 %
     Extraction speed 8.1 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 6E77C974
     Copy CRC 6E77C974
     Copy OK

Track 12

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\12- Killer Cuts OST - Tooth & Claw.bin

     Peak level 81.8 %
     Extraction speed 8.3 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC D058C131
     Copy CRC D058C131
     Copy OK

Track 13

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\13- Killer Cuts OST - Ya Ha Haa.bin

     Peak level 97.1 %
     Extraction speed 8.5 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC E5BB69AA
     Copy CRC E5BB69AA
     Copy OK

Track 14

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\14- Killer Cuts OST - Rumble.bin

     Peak level 90.7 %
     Extraction speed 8.7 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC D979DD2F
     Copy CRC D979DD2F
     Copy OK

Track 15

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\15- Killer Cuts OST - The Extreme.bin

     Peak level 98.0 %
     Extraction speed 8.8 X
     Track quality 99.9 %
     Test CRC 60466105
     Copy CRC 60466105
     Copy OK

Track 16

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\16- Killer Cuts OST - (Null).bin

     Peak level 0.0 %
     Extraction speed 5.9 X
     Track quality 97.2 %
     Test CRC 02864C0E
     Copy CRC 02864C0E
     Copy OK

Track 17

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\17- Killer Cuts OST - (Null).bin

     Peak level 0.0 %
     Extraction speed 6.0 X
     Track quality 97.2 %
     Test CRC 02864C0E
     Copy CRC 02864C0E
     Copy OK

Track 18

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\18- Killer Cuts OST - (Null).bin

     Peak level 0.0 %
     Extraction speed 5.4 X
     Track quality 97.2 %
     Test CRC 02864C0E
     Copy CRC 02864C0E
     Copy OK

Track 19

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\19- Killer Cuts OST - (Null).bin

     Peak level 0.0 %
     Extraction speed 6.0 X
     Track quality 97.2 %
     Test CRC 02864C0E
     Copy CRC 02864C0E
     Copy OK

Track 20

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\20- Killer Cuts OST - (Null).bin

     Peak level 0.0 %
     Extraction speed 5.9 X
     Track quality 97.2 %
     Test CRC 02864C0E
     Copy CRC 02864C0E
     Copy OK

Track 21

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\21- Killer Cuts OST - (Null).bin

     Peak level 0.0 %
     Extraction speed 6.0 X
     Track quality 97.2 %
     Test CRC 02864C0E
     Copy CRC 02864C0E
     Copy OK

Track 22

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\22- Killer Cuts OST - (Null).bin

     Peak level 0.0 %
     Extraction speed 5.9 X
     Track quality 97.2 %
     Test CRC 02864C0E
     Copy CRC 02864C0E
     Copy OK

Track 23

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\23- Killer Cuts OST - (Null).bin

     Peak level 0.0 %
     Extraction speed 5.9 X
     Track quality 97.2 %
     Test CRC 02864C0E
     Copy CRC 02864C0E
     Copy OK

Track 24

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\24- Killer Cuts OST - (Null).bin

     Peak level 0.0 %
     Extraction speed 5.9 X
     Track quality 97.2 %
     Test CRC 02864C0E
     Copy CRC 02864C0E
     Copy OK

Track 25

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\25- Killer Cuts OST - (Null).bin

     Peak level 0.0 %
     Extraction speed 5.8 X
     Track quality 97.2 %
     Test CRC 02864C0E
     Copy CRC 02864C0E
     Copy OK

Track 26

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\26- Killer Cuts OST - (Null).bin

     Peak level 0.0 %
     Extraction speed 6.0 X
     Track quality 97.2 %
     Test CRC 02864C0E
     Copy CRC 02864C0E
     Copy OK

Track 27

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\27- Killer Cuts OST - (Null).bin

     Peak level 0.0 %
     Extraction speed 5.9 X
     Track quality 97.2 %
     Test CRC 02864C0E
     Copy CRC 02864C0E
     Copy OK

Track 28

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\28- Killer Cuts OST - (Null).bin

     Peak level 0.0 %
     Extraction speed 6.0 X
     Track quality 97.2 %
     Test CRC 02864C0E
     Copy CRC 02864C0E
     Copy OK

Track 29

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\29- Killer Cuts OST - (Null).bin

     Peak level 0.0 %
     Extraction speed 7.5 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 3D4041B6
     Copy CRC 3D4041B6
     Copy OK

Track 30

     Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Pablo\Mis documentos\Redump\Killer Cuts\30- Killer Cuts OST - Humiliation.bin

     Peak level 95.1 %
     Extraction speed 8.7 X
     Track quality 99.7 %
     Test CRC 5BEE751B
     Copy CRC 5BEE751B
     Copy OK

No errors occurred

End of status report
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