26 Reply by Viruz (edited by Viruz 2009-07-06 16:48:05)

  • Registered: 2008-05-29
  • Posts: 66

gigadeath wrote:

As I said, I don't oppose changes that go from specific to generic, because the result might be slightly less precise but at least won't end up wrong. So that Dragonball game could be named (Europe) (Fr), despite being released only in France and Spain. Same for (Germany) (De), I accept it becoming (Europe) (De), even if the games were released only in Germany and Austria. Less precise but correct.

The inverse is not possible, the passage from generic to specific will fuck everything up. Most current (Europe) (En) entries have been released in something like 20+ European countries, despite containing only English language. The result would be half the database spreading not simply less precise info, but outright wrong info.

I disagree, it is exactly the same info, just it has been stated, for those unfamiliar with naming systems.

(Europe) - Suggests it is a Europe game, dsitrubuted throughout Europe
(Europe) (En) - Suggests it is a Europe game, dsitrubuted throughout Europe, with the English language

It doesn't suggest that the game was distrubuted in only England anymore than Game (En,Es,Fr,De,It) sugessts it was only distrubuted in the relevant countries

Whereas

(France) - suggests it was only distrubuted in France. Which for those games  mentioned is totally wrong

  • Registered: 2007-09-11
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I don't get your reply. I already said that the Dragonball game should be (Europe) (Fr) or (France/Spain) (Fr). (France) is wrong but
1) if we change it to (Europe) (Fr) then we should change to (Europe) (De) all the German language games which were distributed in Germany AND Austria.
2) (France/Spain) isn't  a valid region at this moment

We require a change in the convention or in the database submit form to achieve either of the above namings. At this moment for that Dragonball Saturn game the only solution is (Spain) (Fr), which is totally correct anyway since the only disc dumped had the Spanish serial.

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gigadeath wrote:

1) if we change it to (Europe) (Fr) then we should change to (Europe) (De) all the German language games which were distributed in Germany AND Austria.

Austria and Switzerland don't distribute any games them self, they import games from Germany !!!
I do not understand the whole excitement because of this naming, it's all in the right form like it is.




p.s. what's the internal serial of this DBZ game? Are you sure the Spanish release does not match the France one?

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  • Registered: 2007-09-11
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Yes, the naming's right as it is now.

Yes the 2 dumps will probably match. We'll discover it when we dump the edition with the French external serial (T-13301H-09)

Only thing is that we'll have to find a solution for its naming. The game is (France) AND (Spain), only released in those 2 countries. Not an interesting problem really, anyway.

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so probably this game was imported from France, why not to name it (France) because its the source where they taken it


p.s. whats the reason to all this topic splits?

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  • Registered: 2007-09-11
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iR0b0t wrote:

LOL more "Region and language tags" postings tongue

Reply here http://forum.redump.org/topic/4778/regi … -tags-3/:P

  • Registered: 2007-09-11
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iR0b0t wrote:

so probably this game was imported from France, why not to name it (France) because its the source where they taken it


p.s. whats the reason to all this topic splits?

It's a French game at heart, but it wasn't simply "imported", it was an official Sega release with a Spain-specific serial (T-13301H-06, while the French one is T-13301H-09). The 2 releases are probably identical, but the disc Retrogamer dumped has the Spanish serial, so we just can't assume they match. He found the game in Portugal, imported from Spain, but the Spain one isn't an import, it's an official release by Sega smile


http://www.satakore.com/sega-saturn-gam … UR-FR.html

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iR0b0t wrote:

LOL more "Region and language tags" postings tongue

Thanks to the great forum software that doesn't even allow the merging of topics.. and if you split posts it 'forgets' the other pages, even though you selected them mad

  • Registered: 2007-09-11
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Jackal wrote:
iR0b0t wrote:

LOL more "Region and language tags" postings tongue

Thanks to the great forum software that doesn't even allow the merging of topics.. and if you split posts it 'forgets' the other pages, even though you selected them mad

lol Not that much of a problem since it's a dead topic, the naming convention is correct as it is now, we'll simply have to adjust the entries that collide after removing serials. The whole (E) = (England) issue is nonsense and everything has already been said about it.

  • Registered: 2008-05-29
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gigadeath wrote:

I don't get your reply. I already said that the Dragonball game should be (Europe) (Fr) or (France/Spain) (Fr). (France) is wrong but
1) if we change it to (Europe) (Fr) then we should change to (Europe) (De) all the German language games which were distributed in Germany AND Austria.
2) (France/Spain) isn't  a valid region at this moment

We require a change in the convention or in the database submit form to achieve either of the above namings. At this moment for that Dragonball Saturn game the only solution is (Spain) (Fr), which is totally correct anyway since the only disc dumped had the Spanish serial.

Ah, sorry i must have misunderstood your post.

  • From: Portugal
  • Registered: 2009-05-13
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I totally agree with gigadeath about the languages.
About the DB my game is exactly like this http://www.satakore.com/sega-saturn-gam … R-SPA.html , it even has the "Ecofilmes" sticker over the barcode (that's why i can't submit the barcode info sometimes lol ) and note that the french disc has japonese writings printed in it.
I'm not sure if that game was imported  because it was available everywhere not just in 1 or 2 stores. I found my other copy  and it's like the other one and yesterday i saw 4 or 5 copies on sale and they were all like mine... i don't know... maybe Ecofilmes may have imported a large amount of copies to sell over here...

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  • Registered: 2008-09-29
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I have a solution that would make everybody happy on the name switch front.

Considering the names are only changed in the dats, cuesheets, gdi files, sbi files, sfv files and md5 files, why not give us both, I for one could stick to using the old names and everyone else could choose what they used, how they see fit.

The actuall files that end up getting renamed are all dependant on the individual user, some have little bits of renaming to do others have a whole heep to do.

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  • Jackal
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We can't go back to the old naming now.. several fields have changed. Some contents of the serial field have moved to the version field, etc... It's technically not possible, and it also doesn't make sense. Tosec and No-Intro also don't have 2 naming conventions. The only optional parameter that we have is the no-intro convention PLUS serials.

We were aware that this step wouldn't please everybody (but still substantially more people were in favor of the no-intro naming than the previous one). Rocknroms wanted to keep the old naming, as did some other people. My only advice to those people is that they should use their own custom naming (several people on here were already doing this, so they should be able to help you in that department).

  • Registered: 2008-09-29
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Jackal wrote:

We can't go back to the old naming now.. several fields have changed. Some contents of the serial field have moved to the version field, etc... It's technically not possible, and it also doesn't make sense. Tosec and No-Intro also don't have 2 naming conventions. The only optional parameter that we have is the no-intro convention PLUS serials.

We were aware that this step wouldn't please everybody (but still substantially more people were in favor of the no-intro naming than the previous one). Rocknroms wanted to keep the old naming, as did some other mods. My only advice to those people is that they should use their own custom naming (several people on here were already doing this, so they should be able to help you in that department).

I am going to choose my own custom naming based on the old names, for all the stuff I have compressed already, some sets are fully un compressed so wont take to much time to re-name them (psx) (ngc).

Stuff I have made pars for all ready I am generally going to keep the images as they are and just new ones I add from now on will get the new names.

I'll probably switch to the new names for everything, but I will definately be waiting as serials may come back into it at some point. So it would be pointless to change names and then have to do it all again sometime soon.

He who controls the SPICE... controls the UNIVERSE!
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  • From: California USA
  • Registered: 2009-05-17
  • Posts: 219

I've always hated no-intro's names. The language tags aren't really necessary to include in the names; I would equate them to including a genre tag like 'RPG/FPS' etc in the name. And the missing serials are a serious hindrance- bad choice.

For example, if I have a slightly corrupted dump that I'm trying to fix to match the appropriate copy in the dat file, is it v1.0, v1.1, v1,.2? Without the serial in the name, who knows? Also with PSP images Redump's dumping method pads more 0s on the end of the ISO compared to the easier 'UMD to USB' dumping method; without a serial to match, there's no way to know how many 0s to add to the end of the ISO to get it to match Redump's file size. Translation patches that only work on a certain serial ISO- it's a mystery!!!

NoIntro doesn't handle a lot of systems that Redump does so why try to cram Redump's broad scope into NoIntro's simple name mold? Redump has an opportunity to do much better. Why not apply different naming conventions to each system as needed. The serials should absolutely be included in PSX/PS2 names because they are so vital to identifying and working with the disk images. NoIntro doesn't even handle those systems.

On the other Europe vs England topic: If English-only games that were not exclusively distributed in Great Britain should be tagged 'Europe', then why are NTSC games tagged USA when they're distributed in other North and South American countries? Redump's names seem to be an example of too many kooks spoiling the soup. Nobody knows the 'official distribution' region for every game ever released and it's ridiculous to try to base names on that. The only time that's really important is for region protected systems.  If someone wants to include a 'Countries Distributed To' section in the database- fine, but why stick that info in the name? For instance, some Japanese PSP games were distributed in mainland Asia with different packaging, but Japanese UMD disks; does that mean those Japanese games should be listed as Asia region?

Not that it has a snowball's chance in Hades of ever happening here, but I think the region tags like 'Europe/USA' should be dropped from the name (but retained as info in the database) and be replaced with a region tag like NTSC/PAL/NTSCJ on the systems where those regions apply. If there's more than one language version for a region then add a language tags to differentiate
i.e.
The World Is Not Enough (PAL) (En)
The World Is Not Enough (PAL) (Sp)
The World Is Not Enough (NTSC)

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  • Registered: 2007-11-13
  • Posts: 499

look the way i see this its changed get over it no intro's way works. It allows for fast scanning and updating ect and most people only care about what language a game is in anyway.

I agree its a pain to have to rename all the files (as im trying to sort out whats what at the moment)  but thats it end of

im keeping a database with all my games anyway with serial tags ect as long as i can find it i can unrar it to whatever its called smile

long live no-intro

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  • Registered: 2008-05-29
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HwitVlf: The USA and South/North america example against England and Europe is exactly the example i was trying to give.

  • From: Hyrule
  • Registered: 2008-01-16
  • Posts: 1,440

Jackal wrote:

Rocknroms wanted to keep the old naming, as did some other people. My only advice to those people is that they should use their own custom naming (several people on here were already doing this, so they should be able to help you in that department).

I don't want to use any custom naming, I simply don't agree with this change.
By the way, at least someone can make an archive of cues splitted by system to help people fix everything.

PS: I hope to be back soon to explain it better and to reply to other topics, along with some new dumps.

EDIT: No-intro convention is super-good for GC/Wii because they are essentially carts (GC had to be a cart system - Dolphin) and they have quite the same flags of other N. carts (no-intro was based first on Nintendo stuff, so probably this is why it has no problem with GC/Wii). Personally, but this is my opinion, I don't like extended country flags ("E" is better than "Europe"). HwitVlf idea of using PAL/NTSC/JAPAN has more sense.

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44 Reply by GBK666 (edited by GBK666 2009-07-23 13:42:59)

  • Registered: 2009-06-11
  • Posts: 313

gigadeath wrote:
Jackal wrote:
iR0b0t wrote:

LOL more "Region and language tags" postings tongue

Thanks to the great forum software that doesn't even allow the merging of topics.. and if you split posts it 'forgets' the other pages, even though you selected them mad

lol Not that much of a problem since it's a dead topic, the naming convention is correct as it is now, we'll simply have to adjust the entries that collide after removing serials. The whole (E) = (England) issue is nonsense and everything has already been said about it.


Uh, nonsense eh?



Toss is right even if he explained/described his issue a bit wrong here.

There were indeed Games only released for the UK Market.

A few Football/Soccer Games come to mind for the PSX. UK Versions of Singstar which had Songs of UK Musicartist which were unknown in other Countries.

Like there were some Rugby Games only released in Australia  around 35 Games were released for the english market only.

And by that i dont mean Europe, only england.

So, our No-Intro based tagging is based of the region the game was released in, righty?

If we all really want to stick to that naming convention then it means that Games only released in England get their own Tag as well.


Again..by that i dont mean Games which are in english only. Those games in english but released in a lot european countries and australia should stick to the /Europe) Tag.

But those released only in the UK region deserve their own tag.

Of course that means a bit more research and investigation for the dumper.


Btw..there are still errors in the PSX and PS2 DB`s do to lack of reasearching.

I found around 10 Games already described as english only which also had other languages.

Others were described as "Region Australia" while they were the Multi 5 versions released and even produced in european countries.

I am known for complaining and recently i got disabled at UG for it after a discussion with a staffmember but dont get me wrong now please i just want the redump.org projects to be done with 100% careness . 

In the hddx forum i am going to create lists of psx and ps2 games with their serials.

those can help here maybe too ..i dunno.

the no intro naming has indeed it ups and downs but in the end....with some tweaking its the better solution i believe.

cheers, gbk


ps: i am willing to provide my help to get a list together of games only released for the UK.


this topic should be discussed again and the naming sheme changed so UK only games will be marked as those and not tagged with the Europe tag.

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45 Reply by GBK666 (edited by GBK666 2009-07-23 13:45:43)

  • Registered: 2009-06-11
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There were indeed Games only released for the UK Market.

A few Football/Soccer Games come to mind for the PSX. UK Versions of Singstar which had Songs of UK Musicartist which were unknown in other Countries.

Like there were some Rugby Games only released in Australia  around 35 Games were released for the english market only.

And by that i dont mean Europe, only england.

So, our No-Intro based tagging is based of the region the game was released in, righty?

If we all really want to stick to that naming convention then it means that Games only released in England get their own Tag as well.


Like Germany, Spain,Italy etc got their own Ps2 Singstar Games . England got unique versions as well.

another ps2 and UK only game was The X-Factor: Sing , a england "idol" version and bout ten-15 more ps2 uk games

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  • Registered: 2007-09-11
  • Posts: 402

If there are any games released in England only, just create a (England) tag and use it when it's necessary. I don't know what's the problem with that.

For the systems I'm directly involved with, the totality of PAL English-only games are whole-Europe release. As far as my part in the database goes, (E) is de facto ALWAYS (Europe). (E) = (England) is STILL nonsense for 99% of the cases.

If some PS1/PS2 games are England only, the dumper/adder will mark it as such when the tag is available.

  • Registered: 2008-03-10
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not england, but united kingdom.

48 Reply by GBK666 (edited by GBK666 2009-07-30 22:54:26)

  • Registered: 2009-06-11
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gigadeath wrote:

If there are any games released in England only, just create a (England) tag and use it when it's necessary. I don't know what's the problem with that.

For the systems I'm directly involved with, the totality of PAL English-only games are whole-Europe release. As far as my part in the database goes, (E) is de facto ALWAYS (Europe). (E) = (England) is STILL nonsense for 99% of the cases.

If some PS1/PS2 games are England only, the dumper/adder will mark it as such when the tag is available.



Region    
Asia
Australia
Brazil
China
Czech
Europe
France
Finland
Germany
Greece
Italy
Japan
Korea
Poland
Russia
Spain
Sweden
USA
Ukraine

only those tags are avaiable , thats my problem

bout 20-30 ps2 pal games were released in the UK only. thats less then 1 percent of all pal ps2 games of course but its for sure more  as the :  Ukraine,Sweden,Russia, Greece, Finland,Czech, Brazil

so..if those tags are possible for ps2 games. an UK/england tag should be  avaiable as well.

there are only 5-10 sweden only ps2 pal games as example btw
bout 5 psx greece only/language games for psx but as far as i know not evne one greek only game was released for the ps2.

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  • From: Hyrule
  • Registered: 2008-01-16
  • Posts: 1,440

Also some Gamecube games have a "only UK" release. Looking at DB you can see these ones have a serial ending with -UKV and quite most of them have also a different multi Euro release.
This is something that begins with previous console generation just to have a release for every language.
If a tag must be used it's better to choose "UK" if we are into no-intro.

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  • Registered: 2009-06-11
  • Posts: 313

Rocknroms wrote:

Also some Gamecube games have a "only UK" release. Looking at DB you can see these ones have a serial ending with -UKV and quite most of them have also a different multi Euro release.
This is something that begins with previous console generation just to have a release for every language.
If a tag must be used it's better to choose "UK" if we are into no-intro.

yeah, most of em.. but some were just released in england/UK..and those are the games which should have the UK tag

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