I was just wondering if anyone here has ever considered creating/extending a database to catalogue game package contents, manual/cover versions etc? Not for the purpose of replacement documents, but solely to record existing versions.
It's hard to figure out what originally came with a game and it will just get harder as time goes by so I think such a database would be helpful.
2 2009-06-10 04:47:13 (edited by pepsidrinker 2009-06-10 21:15:48)
What do you mean like list in the comments this game with a pendant in a pouch like Lunar 2...
I am working on a project right now for scanning package contents to preserve them, it could either turn into a side project or added on to Redump (which I think it should as we are a preservation project) how I envisioned it, people scan the raw images and if they have the necessary skills with imaging tools clean it up and if it's perfect the hashes are added to the game here in the db and either added to the present dat or have a separate one.
The scanning guide I use is here....
http://www.softpres.org/article:scannin … guidelines
As they say it only needs to be done once if done correctly and we can have different versions just like the games.
http://www.game-rave.com/psx/playstatio … /index.htm
Here is an example of a game being released in different packaging.
Sorry, it's probably off-topic as you don't want it for "replacement documents"
EDIT: By the way, I have some Sega-CD Game cardboard boxes not in the best shape (but not horrible either) if someone with the necessary imaging tools like to fix them up let me know. That's what's slowing the project down, can't get my head wrapped around those programs.
pepsidrinker wrote:
What do you mean like list in the contents this game with a pendant in a pouch like Lunar 2...
Yes, exactly. List the contents and provide scans/pictures that are detailed enough to identify variants, then link the packaging to the dump data for the disks that came in the package.
The purpose being, I see used games sold as 'complete' all the time that are actually missing original contents like maps, registration cards, mini walkthrough books etc. People often have no idea what actually came with games and it gets harder to remember as time goes by.
It could be set up just like dumping: a minimal submission would be a text list of the package contents. A picture or scan of the game's individual parts could be added if the submitter wanted. Once a content list was in the database, people could 'vote' that their copy of the game matched the database's entry, or submit a new variety.
I have a list of contents for the games I bought new. It's just for my own reference, but if someone wants to integrate it into a bigger project I'm willing to share it.
5 2009-06-10 21:27:51 (edited by pepsidrinker 2009-06-10 21:28:34)
I can totally agree with HwitVlf, especially say long box and jewel case released games we will be able to see if they are the same or if there is differences more easily if it was noted that such and such was long box this one jewel case etc.
But getting perfect scans of both would be even cooler 
Yes, good scans would be wonderful; it just takes a lot of effort to get a good scan so people might be less willing/able to contribute. I'd say making scan 'preferences' would be good (resolution alignment etc), but still accept anything that serves the purpose. If anyone ever submits a better scan, just replace the old one.
There are quite a few free photo hosts available (photobucket etc) so it might be doable without increasing the database site's bandwidth.
7 2009-06-11 20:47:48 (edited by pepsidrinker 2009-06-11 20:49:02)
HwitVlf wrote:
Yes, good scans would be wonderful; it just takes a lot of effort to get a good scan so people might be less willing/able to contribute. I'd say making scan 'preferences' would be good (resolution alignment etc), but still accept anything that serves the purpose. If anyone ever submits a better scan, just replace the old one.
There are quite a few free photo hosts available (photobucket etc) so it might be doable without increasing the database site's bandwidth.
I can understand where you are coming from, I conceive its from the same place I am coming from "human nature" but opposite sides. Humans will take the least resistance path that's why we don't have an army of dumpers as people think our way to dump games is "complicated" or "time consuming" we are the exception because we have the passion in what we do, I also believe it's because we don't have "preferences" with our dumping procedure but strict steps to follow, of course we could have a bigger database if we was loose with our requirements for dumping games but that's not our purpose its to preserve games.
Same as scanning unless we have strict rules to follow we will get the least resistance (shitty scans) and if we accept it what incentive is there for someone to make the perfect scan? If we make the least resistance perfect scans yes scans might trickle in at first but as we grow in more popularity, maybe more acceptance as the raw material becomes more scarce or lower quality (more vandalism on the material, marked, stickered, lost or thrown away, etc.) same as the games themselves (going to a used game store 3 out of 5 games aren't in dumpable condition meaning most likely there will be glitch some where in game) more people will take up the cause.
- RetroGamer
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That's a good idea but i think that has nothing to do with Redump.org... this site should be only to dump the game discs and nothing more... like no-intro but instead of carts we dump discs 
"Did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter when the promise of a brave new world unfurled beneath a clear blue sky?"
RetroGamer wrote:
That's a good idea but i think that has nothing to do with Redump.org... this site should be only to dump the game discs and nothing more... like no-intro but instead of carts we dump discs
May I ask why you think that? I would really like to understand where you are coming from. I must have a misunderstanding of no-intro, I was under the impression they started for the simple reason of removing Scene intros from roms. I know I am just registered over there so I might not have access to everything they do but I was under the impression they find the best roms on the internet and put it in their dats, and when/if a better dump comes a long they would take out the old and put in the new and if I remember correctly one of their High Council even posted in a thread on the old forum, now this isn't verbatim but "When did we get in the business of dumping games". Am I mistaken?
Now on the other hand, as a preservation project if we find out or even suspect a dump is bad we remove it and not just wait till a proper dump comes a long. As you can't actually claim a game preserved without its supplement information is also preserved (As we are dealing purely with bits of 0 and 1s that would include scans of the supplemented information, cover art, manual, etc.) In the physical realm say the museum of video games wouldn't say we preserved this game when they only had the disc would they? No, unless that's all that remains of that game.
I think Redump.org is the perfect place for that information, but that is my opinion and really that's all it is. It could also be that I am too idealistic about what we are doing here.
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I think that you are wrong about no-intro... they have their dumpers who buy the games and dump them i think they don't remove the intros or find the best roms on the net like you said. From my point of view no-intro is exactly like redump with one little difference we deal with discs and they with cartridges...
and what are we doing here?... After all, it's only hashes... when i want to check if a rom is a perfect dump i go to no-intro and if i want to check if a image is accurate i go to redump...
Please don't get me wrong... i'm a VG fan and a sort of collector since the eighties and i really love that kind of stuff (like the site you mentioned) and i think that you are right about everything you said in previous posts but as i said, that doesn't fit in here...
Sorry, but it's my opinion...
"Did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter when the promise of a brave new world unfurled beneath a clear blue sky?"
RetroGamer, there are already UPC codes and Ring info in the database; I don't see a difference between that info and 'game contents'. I'm all for a site's purpose staying focused, but preserving package content info seems right in line with preserving hash value info. They are both about checking the integrity of a game compared to it's original condition.
Can you give a little more info on why you think it doesn't fit in here? Like "it goes against redump's purpose statement' or 'it would take up too much of people's time and they wouldn't have any left to dump'.
- RetroGamer
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I think the ring codes and the bar code are for documentation only and to help identify different dumps and this is a recent thing, the older dumps don't have that info...
This site is all about perfect dumps... and it's possible for a scan to be a perfect dump of the original book?? I don't know much about that but i think that if 10 dumpers "dump" the same manual there will be 8 or 9 different results... one thing is dumping digital data and other thing completely different is to scan manuals and that kind of stuff... there's no point in adding that hashes to the DB.
I think this is a great idea but as a side project (a site with the manuals, different pakages and different releases of games would be great)
but it seems that i'm the only one who thinks that way...
"Did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter when the promise of a brave new world unfurled beneath a clear blue sky?"
HwitVlf wrote:
I was just wondering if anyone here has ever considered creating/extending a database to catalogue game package contents, manual/cover versions etc? Not for the purpose of replacement documents, but solely to record existing versions.
It's hard to figure out what originally came with a game and it will just get harder as time goes by so I think such a database would be helpful.
Dremora was working on it, don't know the status.
RetroGamer wrote:
That's a good idea but i think that has nothing to do with Redump.org... this site should be only to dump the game discs and nothing more... like no-intro but instead of carts we dump discs
I'd say we should be closer to http://www.softpres.org/ - they dump disks _and_ scan all the papers.
I think artwork would be great. If we add art though I think we should require scanners to calibrate for correct colors, that will ensre accuracy and consistancy.
I found this site about scanner calibration
http://www.photographical.net/scanner_profiling2_2.html
Essentially you get a sheet with sample colors to generate a color profile for the scanner, scan with no color/contrast correction and then apply the profile to get accurate colors. It doesn't seem like that much trouble, free software and a $10 calibration sheet.
I couldn't find any mention in the quidelines of color calibrarion. You can get close by hand, but you have the color inacuracy of the scanner compounded by the color innacuracy of the monitor. Do they mention it somewhere else?
F1ReB4LL wrote:
huygens wrote:
I couldn't find any mention in the quidelines of color calibrarion. You can get close by hand, but you have the color inacuracy of the scanner compounded by the color innacuracy of the monitor. Do they mention it somewhere else?
Well I put that up as a guide, we can write our own guide, that seems like it only has to be done once right, by chance have you tried using it and noticed the difference between a regular scan and one color calibrated? The photos do look better after it in the link you gave Huygens. Would follow those steps save time with using Imaging software?
I think it would save some time. If the scanner color profile is correct, it should be possible to fix all images in one step as apposed to using level correction in gimp or photoshop on images individually. I'll order a calibration sheet and post sample before/after scans next week.
I figure a few raw/profile corrected/manually corrected comparisons should show if it's worthwile.
huygens wrote:
I think it would save some time. If the scanner color profile is correct, it should be possible to fix all images in one step as apposed to using level correction in gimp or photoshop on images individually. I'll order a calibration sheet and post sample before/after scans next week.
I figure a few raw/profile corrected/manually corrected comparisons should show if it's worthwile.
Sounds good, thanks Huygens.