Now they're there, in a box, just doing nothing. I asked months ago about redumping them if needed, got a "wait for magic tool" answer. A week ago I noticed "proper" dumps had appeared, so I asked again.

The simple factual answer I need is:
A) you still have to wait for magic dumping tool anyway --> I sell them now since dumping tool won't probably be out for years to come
B) subcodes are actually useful to determine disc layout --> I dump subcodes, *then* sell the discs

I may be brutal, but I don't want to hear about PCE emupolitics again, not now. I have the discs now, I simply asked if there's anything more I can do with them for redump.org, given the current state of dumping technology.

You can simply check subs from dumps already in DB, I already said, you don't have to redump anything if dumpers still have discs. And again if you are sure some dumps are wrong what's the meaning of double entries.

EDIT: You haven't yet understood that "holding sectors" for DC and PCE are always audio 0x00 <---> audio 0x00, it's not the same thing of SS where we have data <---> audio sectors to move, descreamble, etc.

About DVD raw dumping, we haven't yet check if there's sensible data in the raw sectors: if there's nothing there's nothing to redump.

Here there's no need of subcodes dumps because those gaps are standard for most PCE, at least you'll need subcodes for exceptions (moreover where are those subcodes dump?). By the way it will be more simple to get subcodes dumps from old dumps as suggested by gigadeath.

They aren't standard, also various rings exist. Noone should change any gaps without the proper subchannels dump (remember the specific unusualities on Saturn titles? we can't be 100% sure other systems don't have similar cases). Our project is experimental, so yes, everyone should be always ready to redump everything from scratch.

I have some PC ones But DVD titles are already pending to be redumped due to the rcently discovered method of raw dumping.

Rocknroms wrote:

I agree with themabus: if old dumps are bad simply for a sector of 0x00 moved from a track to another what's the meaning of redumping everything and moreover to have double entries in DB?

Because subcode isn't preserved. If there's no scrambling/descrambling involved (you must check this), then yes - move the sectors. But good subcode dumps for each title is a must for this job. Double entries are temporary, because all the titles should be fixed, I don't want to make them all red/bad or to fix only specific titles (otherwise, it will be a mess).

Rocknroms wrote:

Be serious F1ReB4LL, so we have to redump also all DC games? Here there's no scrambling/descrambling but only 0x00, redumping everything is simply stupid.

Don't have any DC discs, so there's a chance you've done all wrong and all the titles should be redumped, yes
About PCE-CDs - I haven't asked anyone to redump anything, I had dumped my disc properly and iR0b0t then has done the same.

Where have you ever seen descrambled sectors within - in the middle of - audio 0x00? Sorry but this is a complete loss of time. Themabus has submitted a lot of analysies about those gaps that confirm it's all audio 0x00 at 2.74 and at 3.00, so there's no reason to redump everything and moreover to have double entries (this is a mess, moreover is well known that PCE data track pregap have 0.74 - old 1.00 - seconds of audio, so what's the meaning of those Notes?).
DC discs have been confirmed to have those kinds of gaps, we cannot redump everything simply because there could be 1 disc on 3000 that is the exception. Sorry but this is simply mad.

Here there's no need of subcodes dumps because those gaps are standard for most PCE, at least you'll need subcodes for exceptions (moreover where are those subcodes dump?). By the way it will be more simple to get subcodes dumps from old dumps as suggested by gigadeath.

Now we have to hope you'll never buy a DVD game?

I agree with themabus: if old dumps are bad simply for a sector of 0x00 moved from a track to another what's the meaning of redumping everything and moreover to have double entries in DB?

Because subcode isn't preserved. If there's no scrambling/descrambling involved (you must check this), then yes - move the sectors. But good subcode dumps for each title is a must for this job. Double entries are temporary, because all the titles should be fixed, I don't want to make them all red/bad or to fix only specific titles (otherwise, it will be a mess).

Don't have any DC discs, so there's a chance you've done all wrong and all the titles should be redumped, yes
About PCE-CDs - I haven't asked anyone to redump anything, I had dumped my disc properly and iR0b0t then has done the same.

If there's a real disc with 00:02:74/00:01:74 gaps, why should I/we care about wiiware? I've told a million of times - if you want to mantain your own standalone database or a standalone dat for fixed images without mastering issues (maybe even as a redump's child project) - go on, I'm not against this. But this project is about 1:1 copies (as closest as possible, at least).

Yes, if you're able to dump them properly (drive-dependant).

I asked only because atm I still have those PCE discs of mine here to check, but I don't think I'll keep 'em much longer. Since the only edit my dumps went through were 2.74-to-3.00 gap corrections, wouldn't it better if I'd just submit the subcode for those and you edit the current db entries according to the subcodes?

I get the feeling that when the "magic" dumping tool will hit the streets my discs will be long gone, and I, like Rocknroms, don't see the point in redumping everything and having double entries when the only manipulation they went through is a trivial one-sector gap shift.

I already said that we can check these gaps in some ways, I explain better: from wiiware, download somewhere a dump of Ys i & II (the only one in DB), find tools to extract roms/tracks and then check the toc file inside;as it's made by Nec or Hudson, I think we have to trust it.

issue was that you can not have simple mechanism to support this choice when you apply it to whole set
(or rather several sets, sharing the same problems,
that would have to be redumped then as well: SCD, Saturn, PC and maybe others like PC98, Amiga, etc.)
it becomes cumbersome to the extend of manual examination of subcode,
that's extracted with combination of specific drive and software

so this is done in the name of having tracks broken up by said index value,
that doesn't necessary have to coincide with other subcode fields or mainchannel data,
so those would be lost in turn now (so it's like pulling blanket either to head or toes)
which actually in changes made to final resulting data (i.e. quantity of "proper" injected into project)
means one sector, that's already there, could be moved around from one file (track) to another

but you really want this, don't you?

gigadeath wrote:

Then we'll decide what to do with them (it's not necessary to redump everything to correct the dumps of course).

It is. What to do -- wait for the proper sub dumping tool.

I see "proper" dumps being submitted now. So I guess that the situation changed? New dumping tool out or what else?

For what I know this tool could be available only in 2033, I'm not used to acting based on hypothetical things.

If there's a someone with decent programming skills who wants to help with the developement - maybe faster. I don't have lots of free time now, sorry.