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		<title><![CDATA[Redump Forum — Sega Saturn cp talk]]></title>
		<link>http://forum.redump.org/topic/3367/sega-saturn-cp-talk/</link>
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		<description><![CDATA[The most recent posts in Sega Saturn cp talk.]]></description>
		<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:33:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Sega Saturn cp talk]]></title>
			<link>http://forum.redump.org/post/16545/#p16545</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>well, i went through Saturn BISO CD boot sequence with disassembler<br />not all the way up until AIP launch, but i&#039;m almost there<br />and it doesn&#039;t look like it cares at all about those keywords<br />not about &#039;Maker ID&#039; nor &#039;Product Number&#039;<br />it does check however &#039;Hardware Identifier&#039;, &#039;IP Size&#039;, &#039;Security Code&#039;, <br />&#039;Compatible area symbols&#039; and &#039;Area Code Group&#039;</p><p>so i&#039;d guess it&#039;s probably in CD unit itself<br />somewhere near protection - warm and cozy</p><p>but i&#039;m not to trust on this<br />if somebody is interested in subject - it&#039;s better to check for yourself</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (themabus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://forum.redump.org/post/16545/#p16545</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Sega Saturn cp talk]]></title>
			<link>http://forum.redump.org/post/16497/#p16497</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>i wrote summary in 1st post<br /><a href="http://forum.redump.org/post/10732/#p10732">http://forum.redump.org/post/10732/#p10732</a></p><p>maybe somebody feels like experimenting with 90 or 99 min CDs?<br />in a way, depending on which characteristics are evaluated, <br />they would replicate protection ring with less distortions than 74 or 80 min ones<br />e.g. 74min CD would gain ~52645 channel bits per 1460 revolutions, while 99min only ~39884 (25% less)<br />though i don&#039;t think Saturn would read 99 at all, maybe 90</p><p>i haven&#039;t tried any of those myself since there aren&#039;t such RWs</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (themabus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://forum.redump.org/post/16497/#p16497</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Sega Saturn cp talk]]></title>
			<link>http://forum.redump.org/post/16288/#p16288</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>there appears to be another value: &#039;*EGAVIEWER&#039; for Photo CDs<br />though maybe just syntax is alike</p><p>edit:<br />identifier &#039;*EGASYSTEM&#039; is also present in DC System Disc replacing CRC16 &amp; Device Information</p><p>edit:<br />boot process roughly:<br />- check for 1st instance of &#039;*EGA *EGASATURN &#039; identifier at user data offset 0 in first 15 sectors<br />- if present check ring<br />- if pass carry on with Security Code, Area Code verification<br />...</p><p>minimum to disable further ring checks (like SD does) appears to be pass on 1st two checks<br />and additionaly properly filled Maker ID &amp; Product Number fields<br />all the rest can be blank dat - 0x00</p><p>also i&#039;ve tried to replace identifiers with various strings that would yield same CRCs for most common models <br />and few other things and they wouldn&#039;t pass so i&#039;d guess they&#039;re actually byte compared for exact match</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (themabus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 06:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://forum.redump.org/post/16288/#p16288</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Sega Saturn cp talk]]></title>
			<link>http://forum.redump.org/post/16277/#p16277</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>only images from UG.<br />they work but since ring can&#039;t be reproduced on CD-R as of yet, you&#039;d need to do swap once - for the 1st time.<br />i have Japanese console though - i don&#039;t know about the others, maybe there is an difference.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (themabus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://forum.redump.org/post/16277/#p16277</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Sega Saturn cp talk]]></title>
			<link>http://forum.redump.org/post/16273/#p16273</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Do you have them? I&#039;ve read on segaxtreme, that KD01 and KD02 won&#039;t work on a non-dev console.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (F1ReB4LL)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:23:45 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://forum.redump.org/post/16273/#p16273</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Sega Saturn cp talk]]></title>
			<link>http://forum.redump.org/post/16267/#p16267</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>on system discs KD01 &amp; KD02</p><p>so what matters is valid System ID record in System Area and particularly - <br />special identifier in it&#039;s Product Number field: *EGASYSTEM<br />everything else - does not. <br />it can be any track layout, any content - as long as it&#039;s valid for Saturn it will function.</p><p>Product Number field is where serial usually goes, <br />so it&#039;s possible to change it with hex editor to value mentioned above for any Saturn CD <br />and it will disable repeated ring checks after 1st validation - just like system disc does - even after reboot.</p><p>difference between KD01 and KD02 lies in Maker ID field<br />it&#039;s &#039;*EGA ENTERPRISES&#039; in 1st case - 1st party and &#039;*EGA TP&#039; in 2nd - 3rd party<br />this is not different from all normal CDs and this value is kept somewhere in memory after 1st validation,<br />so would you make system disc out of CD with serial T-????? (3rd party) it would function as KD02<br />system disc made from GS-????? CDs (1st party) would work like KD01<br />(except that game will still boot - actual system disc does nothing after execution of AIP - cease to function)<br />there appears to be no further distinction between manufacturers based on company code for 3rd party CDs<br />so one should work for all.</p><p>after System ID record ther&#039;s Security Code. it&#039;s like always and also Area Code group is unmodified.</p><p>and then ther&#039;s Application Initial Program for about 2 sectors, i&#039;m not sure what it does<br />well it displays message on screen and appears to modify fonts, i think, but that&#039;s all i could figure<br />maybe it sets up some additional functions for system disc, <br />but it appears to play no role in boot process modification whatsoever.</p><p>so this special value for Product Number field is interesting. <br />maybe ther&#039;s others? maybe ther&#039;s one, that would bypass ring completely?<br />i&#039;d guess it isn&#039;t stored directly for comparation but rather something like checksum would be used.<br />(as an example: Dreamcast has CRC16 calculated on Product Number+Version stored as an field of System ID)<br />so if one could figure where this validation takes place, <br />it should be possible then to determine whether there are any more such magic numbers.</p><p><span style="color: gray"><em>* = S</em></span></p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (themabus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:56:41 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://forum.redump.org/post/16267/#p16267</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Sega Saturn cp talk]]></title>
			<link>http://forum.redump.org/post/11909/#p11909</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>ther&#039;s an easy way to tell CAV/CLV data aligment apart by measuring time it takes for optics to position from one sector to another.<br />i guess this is about what Alcohol does with DPM on. maybe it could be used to get characteristics of spiral from CD-Rs <br />but probably it&#039;s too rough. i haven&#039;t got much time to test it myself and i&#039;ll be away for about 2 weeks, so i&#039;ve included sources too:<br /><a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?0joblmsqvl1">http://www.mediafire.com/?0joblmsqvl1</a></p><p>for example Dreamcast GD-ROM: (didn&#039;t know much about it but being described as CAV on wiki, i thought it&#039;s curious)</p><p>1st area - regular CLV<br /><span class="postimg"><img src="http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/378/fd0030001501dreamcasteh9.png" alt="http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/378/fd0030001501dreamcasteh9.png" /></span><br />linear decrease in delay is clearly visible here (jump @7000, it&#039;s drive dropping speed)<br />this happens, because same amount of sectors in CLV take more revolutions at the center and less towards the outside of CD, <br />so less mechanical movement is involved to skip same distance (measured in sectors) as radius increases.</p><p>2nd area - logo<br /><span class="postimg"><img src="http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7517/fd0260001501dreamcastke1.png" alt="http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7517/fd0260001501dreamcastke1.png" /></span><br />for CAV it&#039;s constant.</p><p>3rd area - high density<br /><span class="postimg"><img src="http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5563/fd3100001501dreamcastby0.png" alt="http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5563/fd3100001501dreamcastby0.png" /></span><br />here change of delay is a lot less obvious than in 1st area, but still present. </p><p>it&#039;s possible to keep one of sectors fixed instead of distance, so now revolutions become visible:<br />@the beginning of&nbsp; 3rd area<br /><span class="postimg"><img src="http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9222/ffs0600001501dreamcastnj6.png" alt="http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9222/ffs0600001501dreamcastnj6.png" /></span></p><p>towards the end<br /><span class="postimg"><img src="http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/2701/ffs3100001501dreamcastuv4.png" alt="http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/2701/ffs3100001501dreamcastuv4.png" /></span></p><p>from last two images it&#039;s apparent, that sectors per track in this area aren&#039;t nowhere close to being constant.<br />so even though pitch or T is modified, essentially it&#039;s CLV.</p><p>edit:<br />fixed download link</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (themabus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://forum.redump.org/post/11909/#p11909</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Sega Saturn cp talk]]></title>
			<link>http://forum.redump.org/post/11772/#p11772</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>thank you very, very much, RPS!</p><p>after seeing your reply, to actually grasp what you said, i had to read through whole book i had. <img src="http://forum.redump.org/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" /><br />though, i have to admit, i&#039;m still not exactly sure about fully reflective area, <br />i think i do have basic understanding now of how this would work in regard of CAV area.<br />those signals, that could possibly be used for authentication, they can originate in these stages:<br />1.Focusing - but it&#039;s unlikely, i guess. there is no relief changes.<br />and would there be, they&#039;d have to be distinguished from disc vibration.<br />2.Autotracking - could be used for reflective area. for CAV it&#039;s less feasible, <br />though a lot would depend on exact implementation.<br />3.High-Frequency Information Signal decoding - on this stage, when it&#039;s being transformed into binary signal,<br />certain frequency would directly depend on channel bit size, making CAV/CLV differentce unambiguous.<br />4.EFM demodulation - drive rotation speed is constantly corrected depending on subccode block frequency. <br />so again CAV/CLV difference manifests in a very blatant way.</p><p>so thank you again. though yet lacking confidence to experiment with a hardware, <br />(still have to read much more...) i do have a clear vision of what to do now <img src="http://forum.redump.org/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" /></p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (themabus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 19:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://forum.redump.org/post/11772/#p11772</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Sega Saturn cp talk]]></title>
			<link>http://forum.redump.org/post/11761/#p11761</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>hello, RPS! i&#039;m very glad you&#039;re here <br />actually every tidbit of information would be welcome <img src="http://forum.redump.org/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" /></p><p>but so, to be more specific:<br />basically as i understand this ring with copyright/logo essentially is an area recorded in CAV.<br />so, how i see it, on ordinary CLV CD pit/land length (T) would stay fixed (with insignificant deviations)<br />and hence every revolution, from center to outside, would increase in data capacity (by ~35 channel bits).<br />in CAV on the other hand T is variable that changes so all revolutions hold same amount of data<br />and pit/land length increases in direction from center to outside.<br />is this what you meant when you referred to an area with no EFM?<br />or was it perhaps this transition area (empty zone on microscope image) from ordinary data to ring?<br />this is what i&#039;m most puzzled about.<br />also from my understanding, to simulate this CAV layout one would need to keep spindle motor @fixed RPM<br />(or RPS <img src="http://forum.redump.org/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" /> i can&#039;t stop to think your nick actually being a tongue in cheek like humor, excue me if i&#039;m wrong)<br />maybe you have performed such experiments before? <br />i&#039;m currently reading book on cd circuits but it&#039;s probably years until i get there.<br />so the plan is to hack drive and get this ring on CD-R in CAV. and in case of positive result proceed further<br />from there. this ability to recreate ring at will would allow necessary flexibility for experimentation <br />and improving method and making it more user friendly and possibly simplify it to level <br />where drive hacking would not be required at all.<br />other possible outcome - ring recreated in CAV would not work. then i guess nothing would. <br />but we would have done all we could, at least.</p><p>as i understand you have a lot of experience with hardware hacking, maybe you are interested in this yourself?<br />but if not, could you, please, point in direction, where to look to get it done eg. from firmware, circuit?...</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (themabus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:37:55 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://forum.redump.org/post/11761/#p11761</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Sega Saturn cp talk]]></title>
			<link>http://forum.redump.org/post/11711/#p11711</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>i finally rewrote those programs. i&#039;m glad i could keep the promise but i&#039;m very sorry it took me so long.</p><p>everything is combined in 2 exes: one for interleaving and the other one for recalculating CAV-&gt;CLV<br /><a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?nryjjzwv9yx">http://www.mediafire.com/?nryjjzwv9yx</a><br />(please let me know it ther&#039;s any problems - still havent tested them much, but i think their fine.)</p><p>previously i&#039;ve tried doing visualisation (on 486 dos machine in vesa <img src="http://forum.redump.org/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" /> ) but it&#039;s inaccurate.<br />either you see very small section of cd close or about 4% approximation. neither is very useful imho.<br />so instead i&#039;ve changed algorithm for how spiral is broken into tracks from circles to smaller Archimedes&#039; spirals.<br />this way parameters tie together much better and deviation on whole spiral length is only few bytes.<br />so generally no visualisation is required. to calculate arc length i use 1st formula given below, <br />but it&#039;s also possible to use 2nd, it&#039;s much smaller and very precise also - only differs by 1..2 bytes from 1st one.<br /></p><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><p><em>1)</em><br />s(r₂) - s(r₁)<br />&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; _________&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;_________<br />s = ½ r √1 + (r/a)² + ½ a ln (√1 + (r/a)² + r/a) </p><p><em>2)</em><br />s ≈ π (r₂² - r₁² ) / ε</p><p>ε = pitch</p></blockquote></div><p>i&#039;ve tested about 20 patterns on console (different scaling, sector headers on/off, different sector sizes by headers and so on), <br />with no results. they all act the same: check boot code, go to ring, return to center, return to ring, fail. <br />altrough they all were written to same 650mb rw @10x and subcode were not modified, i don&#039;t think it would change anything.<br />it&#039;s either just too rough or will not work at all because of different sector amount.</p><p>also what&#039;s interesting, to do more precise scaling, i&#039;ve tried to clean up ring data by mapping everything to $59/$a8 patterns,<br />and it&#039;s not possible actually. the thing is - every character in copyright message, it&#039;s little different.&nbsp; similar letters - they just look the same<br />but are not. so when you have eg. byte $ff right between $59 and $a8: ..$59 $59 $ff $a8 $a8.. you can not tell, should it be $59 or $a8.<br /></p><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><p>OO&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;OO&nbsp; &nbsp; OO&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; O?<br />OO&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;OO&nbsp; &nbsp; OO&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; O?<br />OO&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;OO&nbsp; &nbsp; OO&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; O?<br />OO&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;OO&nbsp; &nbsp; OO&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; O?<br />OOOOOO&nbsp; &nbsp; OOOOOO?</p></blockquote></div><p>this adds yet more variables to the equation...<br />still i&#039;ve uploaded it anyway here:<br /><a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?na6oybjaam8">http://www.mediafire.com/?na6oybjaam8</a><br />(all non dual pattern bytes were mapped to $ff)</p><p>so i think only rational way to recreate this data would be by actually writting it in CAV with constant RPM.<br />but i don&#039;t know is this possible at all. i think it should be, by modding firmware or connecting to spindle motor controller probably.</p><p>i&#039;ll post on cdfreaks what we have, and will try to ask there. somebody should know.</p><p>edit:<br />i&#039;ve changed one program a little today. and added brief tutorial.<br />so now it&#039;s very easy to output basic shapes and forms to cd. eg it&#039;s possible to draw something simple, like this even in notepad.<br /></p><div class="codebox"><pre><code>..............0
.000000000000.0
.0..........0.0
.0.00000000.0.0
.0.0......0.0.0
.0.0.0000.0.0.0
.0.0.0....0.0.0
.0.0.000000.0.0
.0.0........0.0
.0.0000000000.0
.0............0
.00000000000000</code></pre></div><p>and you just need to specify how many times to repeat pattern.<br />but still you need to know parameters of given CD - it&#039;s a huge drawback.</p><p><span class="postimg"><img src="http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/9738/img0095lb9.jpg" alt="http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/9738/img0095lb9.jpg" /></span></p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (themabus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://forum.redump.org/post/11711/#p11711</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Sega Saturn cp talk]]></title>
			<link>http://forum.redump.org/post/11227/#p11227</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>my pc died today... <img src="http://forum.redump.org/img/smilies/sad.png" width="15" height="15" alt="sad" /><br />it was having problems for about last half month.<br />would not start often and when it did, was going on defaults only - cmos would hang on save.<br />the week i didn&#039;t wrote 15..24 i was replacing cpu, i thought it was l2 cache, but it didn&#039;t help.<br />so finaly today it&#039;s stone cold. even bios doesn&#039;t beep.<br />and i can&#039;t afford repair or a new one now.</p><p>so i won&#039;t be able to do anything for a while. <br />i&#039;m sorry i couldn&#039;t finish those programs.</p><p>i was writing simulation on pc. the ray, when you supply wrong parameters form curve what&#039;s essentially archimedean spiral.<br />so i thought that would be interesting to experiment with it on pc screen, rather than reburn cds all the time.</p><p>to form a ray - it&#039;s not hard. all you need is to take start / end radius, track pitch and channel bit size as variables<br />(width of ray optionally - it&#039;s better to start with at least one sector wide and decrease it gradually, as it gets straighter) <br /> and calc rings with incremental circumference from 2*Pi*r. that&#039;s what i did, but maybe ther&#039;s a better way.</p><p>when parameters of given cd are determined you can draw whatever you like in this model, (or realign data / pad / add headers...)<br />and then run it through deinterleave routine to form an image, <br />thogh it will always be distorted by some amount, i guess, because it&#039;s an approximation after all<br />and because of the nature how cds work.</p><p>i never tested those images on saturn, myself... i sincerely hope somebody will.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (themabus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://forum.redump.org/post/11227/#p11227</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Sega Saturn cp talk]]></title>
			<link>http://forum.redump.org/post/11111/#p11111</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>ther&#039;s another guy: ProgrammingAce @SegaKatana forum<br />the site is dead now, so i&#039;ll repost here, what he wrote:<br /></p><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><p>ProgrammingAce &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Post subject: <br />Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:12 am <br />Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:14 am<br />Posts: 14 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </p><p>Grr... my RSS feed here was damaged (i forgot to update, even though mark specifically warned me). </p><p>I know quite a bit about copy protections (and saturn specifically). I can tell you that not only is it possible to burned self booting Saturn games, but that it has already been done. </p><p>It looks like you&#039;re on the right track. If you have any questions, let me know.</p></blockquote></div><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><p>ProgrammingAce &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Post subject: <br />Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:53 am <br />Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:14 am<br />Posts: 14 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </p><p>Alright, to be a bit more helpful i read through what pinchy said on the cd forums. </p><p>Although they&#039;re arrogant, they&#039;re also right. The pre-ring data is irrelevant, or to be more accurate, non existant. The CD-ROM drive in the saturn isn&#039;t any more advanced then what you use in your PC. If you can&#039;t force a drive to do a raw read of the sectors, chances are they&#039;re no good. </p><p>Quote:<br />I tried to test the counter that is supposed to increment when reading actaul ring data by moving it down to the pre ring area but it still didnt increment.</p><br /><p>This confuses me. The check is hard coded to the address location. You&#039;re missing the cause and effect. The seek doesn&#039;t start the check, the check is a result of the copy protection function. </p><p>Save the cheerleader, save the world.</p></blockquote></div><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><p>ProgrammingAce &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Post subject: <br />Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:00 am <br />Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:14 am<br />Posts: 14 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </p><p>-=FamilyGuy=- wrote:</p><p>I noticed that the data seems to be audio, and I don&#039;t think it as something to do with any knid of refraction like some are saying .. it makes no sense.</p><p>The ring, to me, looks like this : weird sector + a8 59 pattern + weird sectors</p><br /><p>The ring data is audio, it&#039;s a tone. </p><p>The weird sectors are markers, not readable data. Reproducing them would be futile (if even possible without stamping equipment).</p></blockquote></div><p>it&#039;s about the same what Bexster/RPS wrote @cdfreaks</p><p>edit:<br />here, he says more @gamerhistory forum<br /><a href="http://gamerhistory.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=661">http://gamerhistory.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=661</a></p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (themabus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://forum.redump.org/post/11111/#p11111</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Sega Saturn cp talk]]></title>
			<link>http://forum.redump.org/post/11110/#p11110</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>it might, the thing is - i don&#039;t know <img src="http://forum.redump.org/img/smilies/tongue.png" width="15" height="15" alt="tongue" />, closer it is to original the better</p><p>honestly, i haven&#039;t noticed, but yeah, looks like ring. <br />it&#039;s d ~44 mm..~46 mm for &#039;inner buffer zone&#039; and ~46 mm..~50 mm for lead in, i think.<br />but what makes this thin stripe, i don&#039;t know. maybe you can compare it with other pressed cds - pc, audio... (better older)?<br />i only have those few from saturn atm.</p><p>edit:<br />got my saturn now, tried swapping and it can be done so, that only outer part from the original cd is read.<br />whatever there is @center, it doesn&#039;t matter.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (themabus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 07:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://forum.redump.org/post/11110/#p11110</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Sega Saturn cp talk]]></title>
			<link>http://forum.redump.org/post/11109/#p11109</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>You&#039;ve right with track pitch, and I understand your thought and intentions what concerns the logo zone. You believe also the hardware would read the discs, independent of the contents, at exactly logo ring position!? Indeed, this would be crazy!</p><p>I have seen that Saturn discs have 2 rings (inner and outer). Or is this inner ring simply the lead-in area?</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (iR0b0t)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 06:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://forum.redump.org/post/11109/#p11109</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Sega Saturn cp talk]]></title>
			<link>http://forum.redump.org/post/11108/#p11108</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>track pitch is different: ~1600nm on 650; ~1480nm on 700mb cd. <br />so ther&#039;s more &#039;tracks&#039; (spiral revolutions) on 700. this makes all data compressed.<br />if logo is made on the same number of tracks it would be more narrow, <br />positioned @the same LBA as on 650mb cd, physically, on the surface, it will end up closer to the center .<br />assuming that properties of this area are verified, and we strive to simulate them, <br />ther&#039;s too much uncertainty with 700mb imho.<br />saturn will read RWs after laser is adjusted. on factory settings they wouldn&#039;t even spin up.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (themabus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://forum.redump.org/post/11108/#p11108</guid>
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