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	<title type="html"><![CDATA[Redump Forum — LaserLock subchannels]]></title>
	<link rel="self" href="http://forum.redump.org/feed/atom/topic/19520" />
	<updated>2021-10-28T01:21:19Z</updated>
	<generator version="1.4.4">PunBB</generator>
	<id>http://forum.redump.org/topic/19520/laserlock-subchannels/</id>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: LaserLock subchannels]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://forum.redump.org/post/96487/#p96487" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Bump, but I am pretty sure the protection on these discs is LaserLock Marathon rather than Star. Information on Star is scarce but I found one article from 2002 which is 2 years earlier than Marathon was supposedly released. Given that the Marathon titles we have are from 2004, the timings indicate that this LaserLock variant is Marathon.</p><p>(Have also found a few forum posts indicating that Marathon uses DPM, which matches what is said above; will try and look into that)</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[RibShark]]></name>
				<uri>http://forum.redump.org/user/62556/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2021-10-28T01:21:19Z</updated>
			<id>http://forum.redump.org/post/96487/#p96487</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: LaserLock subchannels]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://forum.redump.org/post/64470/#p64470" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>Jackal wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>No idea, I just found the name &quot;LaserLock Star&quot; somewhere, maybe we should just call it LaserLock NEW? <img src="http://forum.redump.org/img/smilies/tongue.png" width="15" height="15" alt="tongue" /></p></blockquote></div><p>A-Ray scanner or ProtectionID may tell correct name to you..</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[sarami]]></name>
				<uri>http://forum.redump.org/user/12356/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2018-10-21T00:07:50Z</updated>
			<id>http://forum.redump.org/post/64470/#p64470</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: LaserLock subchannels]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://forum.redump.org/post/64464/#p64464" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>sarami wrote:</cite><blockquote><div class="quotebox"><cite>Jackal wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Fair Strike + HellForces + Cold War Conflicts are newer titles with a different type of LaserLock &quot;Star&quot;, which has the error sectors at the end of the disc.<br />For Cold War Conflicts, the redump image seems to work.<br />Fair Strike + HellForces seem to need DPM/RPMS. A CloneCD image alone wasn&#039;t sufficient.</p></blockquote></div><p>Good works. Btw, is LaserLock &quot;Star&quot; different from LaserLock MARATHON? <a href="https://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_protections_marathon.shtml">https://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/c … thon.shtml</a></p></blockquote></div><p>No idea, I just found the name &quot;LaserLock Star&quot; somewhere, maybe we should just call it LaserLock NEW? <img src="http://forum.redump.org/img/smilies/tongue.png" width="15" height="15" alt="tongue" /></p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Jackal]]></name>
				<uri>http://forum.redump.org/user/8/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2018-10-20T15:58:04Z</updated>
			<id>http://forum.redump.org/post/64464/#p64464</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: LaserLock subchannels]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://forum.redump.org/post/64460/#p64460" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>Jackal wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Fair Strike + HellForces + Cold War Conflicts are newer titles with a different type of LaserLock &quot;Star&quot;, which has the error sectors at the end of the disc.<br />For Cold War Conflicts, the redump image seems to work.<br />Fair Strike + HellForces seem to need DPM/RPMS. A CloneCD image alone wasn&#039;t sufficient.</p></blockquote></div><p>Good works. Btw, is LaserLock &quot;Star&quot; different from LaserLock MARATHON? <a href="https://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_protections_marathon.shtml">https://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/c … thon.shtml</a></p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[sarami]]></name>
				<uri>http://forum.redump.org/user/12356/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2018-10-20T10:10:38Z</updated>
			<id>http://forum.redump.org/post/64460/#p64460</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: LaserLock subchannels]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://forum.redump.org/post/64436/#p64436" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p><span class="postimg"><img src="https://img-16.ccm2.net/cPafcOLIJof7F1ucGLdYP-BRtXQ=/3da041f562bd4ff9b8a3f9f8586eb88f/ccm-faq/AlGX0Jra-cohol5-s-.png" alt="https://img-16.ccm2.net/cPafcOLIJof7F1ucGLdYP-BRtXQ=/3da041f562bd4ff9b8a3f9f8586eb88f/ccm-faq/AlGX0Jra-cohol5-s-.png" /></span></p><p>It&#039;s strange that they are listing it separately, so maybe subchannels aren&#039;t used but something else. I also read in other places that &quot;with a 1:1 image, emulation isn&#039;t needed&quot;.</p><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><p>Does it mean cue+bin (no sub) image can&#039;t run?</p></blockquote></div><p>Asghan and V2000 are crashing at startup (and Asghan somehow works with emulation enabled), but it could be because of other issues or compatibility problems.</p><p>I tested some other games (Icewind Dale + Spec Ops + Evolva, and before also other games) with normal redump images without without subchannels, and they worked.</p><p>Fair Strike + HellForces + Cold War Conflicts are newer titles with a different type of LaserLock &quot;Star&quot;, which has the error sectors at the end of the disc.<br />For Cold War Conflicts, the redump image seems to work.<br />Fair Strike + HellForces seem to need DPM/RPMS. A CloneCD image alone wasn&#039;t sufficient.</p><p>So I&#039;m giving up for now. There is no evidence that any LaserLock games are using subchannels. Maybe reentrant can also double check his Fallout 2 disc to be sure.</p><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><p>Did you check the pregap of track1 and lead-in and lead-out?</p></blockquote></div><p>Pregap yes, lead-in and lead-out no.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Jackal]]></name>
				<uri>http://forum.redump.org/user/8/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2018-10-19T10:56:06Z</updated>
			<id>http://forum.redump.org/post/64436/#p64436</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: LaserLock subchannels]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://forum.redump.org/post/64435/#p64435" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>A man also says this. <a href="https://www.hardwarecentral.com/forum/threads/subchannel-data.37555/">https://www.hardwarecentral.com/forum/t … ata.37555/</a><br /></p><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><p>Some protections that use SubChannel Data are SecuROM, LibCrypt (PlayStation) and LaserLock.</p></blockquote></div><p>But CD Media World says nothing about subchannel. <a href="https://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_protections_laserlock.shtml">https://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/c … lock.shtml</a></p><p>I have no idea which is correct...</p><br /><div class="quotebox"><cite>Jackal wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>and discovered that it would only launch with LaserLock emulation enabled in daemon tools.</p></blockquote></div><p>Does it mean cue+bin (no sub) image can&#039;t run?</p><div class="quotebox"><cite>Jackal wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I&#039;m still checking, but so far I haven&#039;t found any obvious protection data on any of the discs.</p></blockquote></div><p>Did you check the pregap of track1 and lead-in and lead-out?</p><div class="quotebox"><cite>Jackal wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Or is it possible that drives modify the data and correct the crc bytes when they shouldn&#039;t?</p></blockquote></div><p>I&#039;m not sure.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[sarami]]></name>
				<uri>http://forum.redump.org/user/12356/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2018-10-19T09:48:55Z</updated>
			<id>http://forum.redump.org/post/64435/#p64435</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: LaserLock subchannels]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://forum.redump.org/post/64434/#p64434" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>sarami wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><a href="http://www.laserlock.com/faq.html#canLLProtectMixed">http://www.laserlock.com/faq.html#canLLProtectMixed</a><br />Official site says<br /></p><div class="codebox"><pre><code>Can LaserLock protect Mixed Mode CDs?
LaserLock can protect the PC part of mixed mode CDs. Audio tracks cannot be protected and are not affected by the protection.</code></pre></div></blockquote></div><p>They must be talking about the bad sectors, not the subchannels.</p><p>After rereading some sectors, it seems obvious that the 1-bit crc errors are normal read errors and not part of the protection.<br />I&#039;m still checking, but so far I haven&#039;t found any obvious protection data on any of the discs.<br />Or is it possible that drives modify the data and correct the crc bytes when they shouldn&#039;t?</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Jackal]]></name>
				<uri>http://forum.redump.org/user/8/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2018-10-19T07:55:06Z</updated>
			<id>http://forum.redump.org/post/64434/#p64434</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: LaserLock subchannels]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://forum.redump.org/post/64427/#p64427" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.laserlock.com/faq.html#canLLProtectMixed">http://www.laserlock.com/faq.html#canLLProtectMixed</a><br />Official site says<br /></p><div class="codebox"><pre><code>Can LaserLock protect Mixed Mode CDs?
LaserLock can protect the PC part of mixed mode CDs. Audio tracks cannot be protected and are not affected by the protection.</code></pre></div>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[sarami]]></name>
				<uri>http://forum.redump.org/user/12356/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2018-10-19T00:25:27Z</updated>
			<id>http://forum.redump.org/post/64427/#p64427</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: LaserLock subchannels]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://forum.redump.org/post/64413/#p64413" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>Jackal wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Icewind Dale (Germany) (Disc 1): <a href="http://redump.org/disc/56488/">http://redump.org/disc/56488/</a></p></blockquote></div><p>This looks different from what you posted in forum.</p><p>Also, the audio subchannels which you posted earlier in you initial 1st post seemed to have a protection pattern as well.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[iR0b0t]]></name>
				<uri>http://forum.redump.org/user/4357/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2018-10-18T09:18:11Z</updated>
			<id>http://forum.redump.org/post/64413/#p64413</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: LaserLock subchannels]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://forum.redump.org/post/64405/#p64405" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Alcohol Soft also says so.<br /><a href="http://support.alcohol-soft.com/knowledgebase.php?postid=15001&amp;title=What+are+Sub+Channels">http://support.alcohol-soft.com/knowled … b+Channels</a></p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[sarami]]></name>
				<uri>http://forum.redump.org/user/12356/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2018-10-18T03:10:53Z</updated>
			<id>http://forum.redump.org/post/64405/#p64405</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[LaserLock subchannels]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="http://forum.redump.org/post/64399/#p64399" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>edit: It turned out to be a wild goose chase</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Jackal]]></name>
				<uri>http://forum.redump.org/user/8/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2018-10-17T19:48:47Z</updated>
			<id>http://forum.redump.org/post/64399/#p64399</id>
		</entry>
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